Merry Christmas and the Dance of Equality, Technology and Spirituality
The other day I was talking about the election with some friends. One of my most-trusted insiders, Michael Cage (a first rate marketing genius – at 28 years old he has yet to show the world what he is fully capable of) commented, “One of the things that defines the generation that elected Barack Obama is we just don’t relate to an us-vs-them mentality when we look out at the rest of the world. Everyone in the world is just an email away.”
Ten years ago someone commented, “These days you may not even know your next door neighbor, but you exchange emails with your buddy in South Africa twice a week.” I looked out the window at the house next to mine – barely knew the neighbors – and yes I was sitting there sending emails to someone in some far-off country.
Every week I get on conference calls and say hi to everyone and barely think twice about the fact that I’ve got 17 people from Texas, four from Perth, one from Amsterdam, one in Alaska, one in Lebanon.
Ever heard Thomas Friedman’s “McDonalds theory of world peace”? He observes that with only one exception, no two countries with a McDonalds have ever gone to war with each other.
Can you imagine, say, the US going to war with Australia? Think of all the emails the senators and congressmen would get: “Hey, stop trying to kill my customers! And by the way, here’s a list of 115 blogs from people who are trapped in the Siege of Sydney right now!”
The world of 2008 is truly a strange and wonderful place. Just before we took off for Nebraska to go see relatives, I loaded the first season of The Dukes of Hazzard on my video iPod so my 10 year old son would have something to watch while we trucked down Interstate 80.
That TV show ran in 1979 – the year that *I* was 10 years old. I said to Laura, “Who would’ve thought that 25 years later you’d be able to download an entire season of the Dukes of Hazzard onto a device that’s half the size of a pack of cigarettes, and our kids would watch it in the car with headphones and a 2″ screen?” We shake our heads in amazement.
OK, so what does all this have to do with Christmas?
Equality and technology… They have everything to do with Christmas.
Let’s start with equality.
The United States Declaration of Independence makes a world-shattering declaration that transformed the modern world:
“We hold these things to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”
In his book “Democracy in America” (1835) Alexis de Tocqueville carefully traces this statement and its idea of equality backward through history and lands at Galatians 3:28, the words of St. Paul:
“In Christ there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, slave nor free. All are equal in Christ Jesus.”
Before Paul said this, no one had ever made such a bold and sweeping statement. No one. Not the Jews or Babylonians, not the Egyptians, not the Greeks, not the Chinese. The concept of equality came first from Paul.
This idea got planted in western civilization and began to grow and develop, little by little dismantling slave trade, sowing the seeds for democracy and spurring technological and political progress. He says that from 1100 AD to the present, every major development led to more equality, not less. The Magna Carta. The invention of the horseshoe. The invention of the gun and the post office and the printing press and democracy.
If you live in a democracy and you’re thankful for the ability to vote, if you’re thankful that people generally consider you and themselves to be just as good as anybody else, then thank Paul. And his Rabbi, Jesus.
Because – despite what the Declaration says – equality really is NOT self evident. At least it wasn’t to any of the ancient world prior to 2000 years ago. On the surface, we’re all different. Some are stronger. Some are smarter. Some have more money. Some are politically connected. Some are more savvy.
And some people get the scraps.
You have no principle to guide you but the 80/20 rule. Which, divorced from any overriding sense of equality or individual dignity, is a cruel master.
But when Paul said this, he was declaring that there is an underlying *spiritual* reality, that yours and my true identity doesn’t come from accomplishments or money or power but from our Heavenly Father. That once we know that true identity we’re no longer slaves to money and power and accomplishments and the ‘natural’ order of things.
If you’re thankful that Western Civilization today considers all people to be intrinsically equal, be thankful that a young couple in Bethlehem gave birth to a baby who was to become the most loved, most hated, most argued about, most written about, most influential person in the history of the world. One who taught that the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. One in whom there is no male or female, no Jew nor Greek, no slave nor free.
So then how about technology?
Science itself is, at its core, a presumption of discoverable underlying order. A belief, an assumption (which cannot be proven in advance BTW) that when an apple falls from a tree it does so because of some law of nature that caused it to do so. That there was a string of cause and effect that can be traced back to explain why this happened.
The apple did not fall from the tree because, say, Zeus was having a snit with Apollo and that’s why there was the lightning storm which is why there was a wind that caused the apple to swing back and forth and fall from the tree…. no, it happened for rational discoverable reasons. That God made a world which could operate consistently on its own without Him constantly making corrections from the outside.
So far as I can tell, the inspiration for this belief first came from Wisdom of Solomon 11:21: “Thou hast ordered all things in measure and number and weight.”
(The Protestants omitted that book, but our Catholic friends thankfully left it in.)
If a scientist does not presume that there is a rational reason for what he is about to investigate, there is nothing for him to investigate at all. Belief in rationality comes from belief in a rational God. A God who wants us to discover His universe. For whom such discovery is an act of worship.
If you read the history of science over the last 500 years, the only reason science succeeded in the West – after getting started but failing in Greece, Rome, China and in the Arab world – is that Christian theology understood God to have created the universe to operate according to fixed discoverable laws. Theology made that prediction, then people had a philosophical basis for having a scientific method.
In his fascinating book “The Victory of Reason” historian Rodney Stark further explains that the forward march of technology began after the fall of the Roman Empire and has marched steadily forward ever since. Equality implied that slavery was wrong, so people had to develop technology in order to free their slaves and still get the work done. So… part of the inspiration for inventions like water wheels was a belief in dignity and freedom and the rights of the individual.
Technology is supposed to empower people, not enslave them. Because, as Paul said, in Christ, all are equal.
If you trace these ideas back through history, equality and technology and even iPods and Democracy have everything to do with our very beliefs about the universe and about God. And yes, even Jesus. Case in point: it’s politically incorrect to say “Merry Christmas” cuz it’s too religious. Instead you get a tepid, watered down “Happy Holidays.”
It’s because Christ is offensive. When a guy smashes his thumb with a hammer, he doesn’t say “Krishna” or “Buddha,” he says Jesus Christ. Because that’s the most loaded, most powerful word in the English language. There’s no name you can invoke that’s more powerful than the Son of God.
~~~
Do you know what the most important invention in the history of the world was?
It wasn’t the computer. And it sure wasn’t the light bulb or the telephone. (Or even the electronic voting machine.)
It was the printing press.
In 1445, Johannes Gutenberg invented the world’s first movable type printing press. He didn’t know it, but he was unleashing a revolution that continues to this day. Even the mighty Internet in the 21st century is just an extension of Gutenberg’s original, revolutionary machine.
The first book he printed was the Bible. And that led to controversy, too, because Luther translated it into German, the people’s language, instead of Latin, the lingo of the religious elite.
Suddenly, ordinary folks could not only afford a copy, but they could read it for themselves instead of getting some guy’s slanted interpretation. Soon the cat was out of the bag–there were copies scattered all over Europe.
When people started to read it, they were alarmed at what they saw, because between the covers of this book was an amazing story that had seemingly little to do with the politics and shell games they saw in some corners of organized religion.
Luther wrote a list of 95 accusations against the church — priests taking bribes and granting ‘indulgences’, an institution setting itself up as a ‘middleman’ between man and God.
He argued that God didn’t need a middleman, or a distributor, or an agent, or a bureaucracy. People could go direct to the source.
This little ‘schism’ in Worms Germany unleashed a firestorm of protest and permanently changed the way people approached education. No longer was a big, faceless institution responsible for your spiritual progress — YOU were. Now that you had the knowledge in your hands, you were accountable before God to do something about it.
I’m not trying to attack the Catholic church, by the way. The problem is not institutions per se; it’s just that it’s easier for most of us to mindlessly follow some guru than to listen to God’s still small voice, and use the minds He gave us.
It’s no coincidence that the scientific enlightenment and industrial revolution began in earnest within 50 years of this. Not that it wasn’t already underway (it had already gathered considerable momentum) but now that ordinary folks had access to knowledge and the freedom to pursue it, the possibilities were limitless.
The printing press took the handcuffs off of knowledge and spirituality, and the world has never been the same. Equal access to knowledge empowered people everywhere, and it was only natural that the Renaissance, and in time, democracy too would follow.
So on Christmas we celebrate the person who inspired these revolutions. Jesus’ teachings were radical and scandalous. He claimed to be the Son of God. He said he would rise from the dead, and according to the historical accounts, he did. He stepped into the world and split time in half: BC and AD. And his words still resonate throughout the earth in 2008.
Still rolls the stone from the grave.
Today I wish you a very Merry Christmas and a happy new year. And in the spirit of what Jesus taught us, I hope that in 2009 you’ll use the 21st century printing press, the Internet, to not enslave but empower individuals. To bring more equality, to make the world a better place for your fellow man.
Thanks for reading.
Perry Marshall
P.S.: You might also enjoy my email series on science, “Where did the Universe Come From” as well as “7 Great Lies of Organized Religion.”
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Perry, in this mood, you may find this article interesting (I know I did after first reading it in April 2000). It’s by Bill Joy, and titled “Why The Future Does Not Need Us!”
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html
All success
Dr.Mani
I absolutely loved this part:
“It’s because Christ is offensive. When a guy smashes his thumb with a hammer, he doesn’t say “Krishna” or “Buddha,” he says Jesus Christ. Because that’s the most loaded, most powerful word in the English language. There’s no name you can invoke that’s more powerful than the Son of God.”
I have never thought of it that way before but it speaks volumes and really puts a lot of things in perspective. (Jesus said the world would hate Him and Christians, why are so many surprised when some idiot at Wal-Mart complains when they are wished a merry Christmas?)
Thanks for sharing this Perry, excellent stuff
Ben
Dr. Mani, I read Bill Joy’s paper “Why the future doesn’t need us” on a plane flight to China in 2001. It resonated with me. It addresses the fundamental question, will technology be our master or our slave? A person with a theological education finds many thoughts in common with Mr. Joy. Thought provoking indeed.
I don’t think this is a settled question. It’s a culture war and the outcome has everything to do with whether we do indeed believe that humans are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights – or whether life on planet earth reduces to ‘survival of the fittest.’ The battle rages even now.
Perry Marshall
Well said, Perry!
I wrote this for Christmas this year, thought I’d share it:
The angels came down
While Bethlehem slept.
To give glory to the King for whom no room was found.
They lit up the sky to welcome Him who had left His throne
To bridge the chasm between God and man. On this night it would begin.
“Glory to God in the highest!” they sang, “and on Earth peace, good will to men. For your Savior has come.”
For on that night God became flesh in His Son. God took the form of man so He could know His creation. Now He would know all the pain, the suffering and temptation that man knew. Now He would understand.
So in a dirty manger, wrapped in rags, the King of heaven came to the Earth. A tiny hand, the hand that wrapped the universe, reached out and touched the face of His mother. The finger of God had touched the earth.
The child known at first only to shepherds grew into a man. He knew hard work; the hands that formed the world were calloused with the labor of the common man. The King chose to share in normal work. No servants for Him, he became the servant of all.
Later these calloused hands would reach out and heal the sick, raise up the lame and open the eyes of the blind. He would teach not to hate, but love. He taught forgiveness of sins, not condemnation. He taught the kingdom of God had come.
We hated Him. We mocked Him. We condemned Him.
And these hands that built, hands that healed, these hands that formed the universe, were pierced on a cross by the people they created. The life that gave life was poured out for all..
The angels could not come down. He had to bear this burden alone. And the angels wept as the Son of God gave His life’s blood for ones He loved.
He hung there and died there for you, for me.
But 3 days later, the angels came down to roll a stone away to reveal an empty tomb; to proclaim that death could not hold the Son. He is alive! He paid the price of sin and set you free! Why do you seek Him among the dead? He is not here in the tomb. He is alive. He is risen!
Jesus returned to His rightful place as King of Kings, Lord of Lords.
As King He will return for those who have chosen His free gift: forgiveness of sins and eternal life with Him.
Now the hands that formed the universe, touched His mother’s face, worked a common job, comforted and healed, were pierced for our sins, hands of love reach down from eternity to you, to me. Will you reach out and take the hand of the Savoir? Will you take His Christmas gift of forgiveness and eternal life? Or will you sleep the sleep of Bethlehem and miss His return?
Merry CHRIST-as to all!
Gene Ilten
Love reading your stuff Perry. But when I think of it, I seem to think that equality is Utopian. All are equal but that does not guarantee all are treated equally. Those with more money, resources, knowledge and spiritual conviction always seem to have the advantage.
Reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite books Animal Farm: “All animals are created equal but some animals are more equal than others”
I often substitute animals with doctors, lawyers, presidents and yes even internet marketers.
Merry Christmas and a Mighty Prosperous 2009
-Kenn
Hi Perry,
I read your emails with great curiosity and not sure if we should turn a business/professional blog into making political or religious commentary. Allow to me share with you that thousands of years ago, Vedas, the ancient book of universal knowledge from present-day India had said: “Aekam-Satya-Viprah-Bahudhah-Vadanti” transliterating to: God Almighty’s name is the sole truth that is interpreted by the knowledgeable folks in many different ways. Or, “Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam” … the whole world is one big family!
Thanks for writing this. I enjoyed reading this post very much.
Recently, I was offered to promote a tempting, but scamming, affiliate offer, but decided to use the power of internet marketing for good and not for evil.
I may be thousands of dollars poorer now than I could have been, but I sleep better.
Merry Christmas
Perry,
Thank you very much. It takes strength of character at this time of the year to stand up!
I know this is not what you intended, but you now have a client for life!
Thanks again!
And….Merry Christmas!
Perry,
What about the various theories of natural rights?
It doesn’t seem like the dichotomy needs to be God vs. survival-of-the-fittest mob rule.
Best,
- Jay
Bless you Perry. Your take on things is always beyond the norm and yet a person finds themselves saying, you know, he’s right.
I for one am glad God put you on this earth at this point in time, and that He allowed our paths to cross, so I might learn from you to think beyond the obvious and to look deeper at the meaning of things.
I have GIANT goals for 2009. I trust in their manifestation for Jesus said, if you but had the faith of a mustard seed. He has provided the tools and I have the faith, followed by works.
Many blessings of Love to you Perry and your family.
Christy & Keven
Absolutely. It led me to read Kurzweil’s book, “The Age of Spiritual Machines”, which I found fascinating too.
And then, there was Bill Joy’s follow up article
a year or so later – am trying to locate a link to share with you – which took the more abstract
concept in this article to a more defined and
specific technology-backed argument.
Mind expanding – in a good way
Merry Christmas!
Dr.Mani
In a world where everyone is scared to say Merry Christmas as you pointed out Perry it is great to read, great to hear, and great to say. Sometimes we worry about offending others but in that process we fail to take a stand on anything or express our own personal faith.
Thanks for putting this in writing for all to see. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Perry:
I think you would greatly enjoy a book titled The Mainspring of Human Progress by Henry Grady Weaver. It was written in 1947, so you will need to do a used book search in Amazon. God bless!
Hi Perry,
Excellent article. Pretty unusual for you to publish this. Very Good article.
To your success
Jey Kumara
http://www.jeykumara.com
We’re not free. Society isn’t free, even though most people mindlessly think we are. I agree witht the technological message of this post, but if you want to know more about where I’m coming from, watch the free Google Video movie Zeitgeist Addendum, and learn more about The Venus Project.
Then you’ll see what a lie it is we all live in.
Well said, Perry. Merry Christmas everyone. Let us be thankful for our many, many blessings and remember our true calling- to spread the word and ministry of our Lord, Jesus with all of the tools at our disposal in all that we do!
Well written and thought provoking.
Thanks Perry and … Merry Christmas!
Perry,
I couldn’t agree more with all you wrote here.
As the Pastor of my church says it, “This “God” thing? It isn’t “a” thing…it’s the ONLY thing.”
I pride myself on including my spirituality in everything I do, without regard for the consequences. It almost NEVER causes a negative reaction from anyone.
The walls of my office are covered with my favorite scriptures. It always stimulates conversation with visitors, and probably 90% of the time it leads to a deep spiritual conversation in which I discover the same thing over and over and over: most people actually believe. They just don’t have any opportunity to connect with other believers to help nurture them and educate them.
As the Great Commission (Matthew 28:16-20) commands, we are to “go and make disciples of all nations.” EVERYTHING else we do is secondary.
I have NO DOUBT that your success is as attributable to your faithfulness to God as it is to your actual talent. That is not a putdown – it is an acknowledgement that every mature Christian understands: God does it all. We are just the instruments, the vessels, the conduits through which He does what He does.
Merry Christmas, brother. Wishing you all God’s best in 2009 and beyond…
My best,
Michael McClure
Perry, VERY well written. Merry Christmas!
And you know the crazy thing is, until today it was always a little bit ambiguous to me as to whether or not you were a believer. Now, you leave me with no doubt, and my heart is glad to see a fellow successful internet marketer who realizes it isn’t all about the money because it profits us nothing if we gain the whole world but lose our own souls.
Thank GOD for the printing press!
Grace and Peace
Brian
Wow! What a refreshing comment. I was excited to read this post.
I have often thought of how the world could really work for everyone, no matter what religious or political views each individual has.
Does God exist? Not one of us can live without breathing air. So, it could be said that I am dependent on something greater than myself for my very existence. Not only air, but animals and plants, and my parents and other people who bring me products and service for me to live. In that sense we are all dependent on a higher power. If it wasn’t for love, I couldn’t love.
Christians say that God is love and that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus said that the only way to the kingdom of heaven is through him. So, it could be said that the only way to heaven is through love.
When we look at our place in history and if we live in a dream that has love be the main dominating factor of our relationship with each other then the internet, as a communication tool, certainly holds the promise of providing equal opportunity to anyone who can get on the internet.
Now, our community can embrace eveyone of us on this planet. If “love” is our reason, we embrace and look at everyone else as our fellow passengers on this planet.
You are a full expression of this and thanks for being that!
Perry,
Well said, we are all been invested in the Judeo Christian principles of life eventhough some swing way too far right or left of these principles inherited for the betterment of mankind.
Time was not time until it was devided in light and darkness, in morning and evening (Genesis 1:4) Like you said technology is an extension of Gutenberg’s work, more refined and much more sophisticated.
I appreciate your point of view, despite that I am not religious, I revere Jesus Christ. Those who oppose Him, ambrace the archaic way of life that plagued the dark ages.
I just began reading your blogs, I am not a techie, but I would like to start an online business working from home. Any suggestions?
Mish
Thanks for reminding us that our Founders created a noble and wildly successful experiment in democracy and freedom built on faith but able to be enjoyed by all. Perfect? No. Still changing, adapting, and still an experiment? Yes. Let’s strive to remember the underlying basis of freedom and inherent equality that you correctly observe compelled so many changes in such a short historic time span. Be well and Merry Christmas.
David M. Frees
http://www.successtechnologies.com/blog
Face book: David M Frees
Twitter Davefrees
I enjoyed this post very much, Perry. Thanks for sharing. Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Hi Perry,
Disclaimer: Although I’m an atheist and celebrate Christmas purely as a traditional winter holiday, and actually believe that we would have attained equal rights and democracy a lot faster (and would progress further today) without religion holding us back…
I agree with you about the effect that we’re seeing of the younger generation growing up with the idea of a very small world. I think that’s going have a dramatic effect over the next 20 or 30 years on how politics is done between countries. The younger generation has also grown up with 8 years of disastrous arrogant foreign policy, and they saw the effect from talking to their friends in other countries.
However, I will say this — there is also a danger to this. I see a lot of naivete in the Internet generation, where they believe that there are no bad guys out there, only “misunderstood” people. They are in for a rude awakening when they realize that sometimes — really — the only solution is to start dropping bombs on bad guys until they stop.
And in the spirit of the season, thanks for the gifts of knowledge that you give away. Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas Perry and family. Really enjoyed this article on Jesus. I truly beleive his words, and I follow his guidance throughout each day of my life. Praise him as Lord and father of all people in the world. Excellent article.
I appreciate reading the history behind the scientific progress and the religious progression of our Christian and Jewish Faith. We are in this country held in bondage by too much political incorrect media and human influence. Thank you for your article. It is my wish this article circles the world wide web many times and is read by millions and millions of people. It indeed the truth can set us free, the truth in my humble opinion is in this article.
So speaking off using Jesus to accentuate something, I have a cute story to tell: When I moved to North America many years ago, I played soccer on my school team. I did not speak a word of English and coming from Europe we would use words that showed frustration when something went the wrong way, such as missing the goal on repeated attempts etc.. I heard other players say what I thought was “Cheese” and I started using that in disgust when I missed a shot here and there….after weeks of this finally somebody asked me (slowly) why I always said Cheese when I screwed up? Well, I told him that everybody else uses that world and I thought it was appropriate…..I was immediately informed that the world was Jesus and not Cheese…..
As you can imagine I felt like a tool and immediately corrected myself in using the Lords name properly…..Merry Christmas!
I agree that Gutenberg revolutionized the Western World, but I often wonder if its import has been outdone by the guys at AT&T Bell Labs in the 1940s when they discovered the transistor. That event revolutionized communication world-wide.
I read the Bill Joy piece (In 1987, I wrote the definitive manual for Joy’s “vi” text editor that runs on Unix) and while his ideas are intriguing, I find the entire discussion rather moot.
Here’s why:
Many professed atheists attempt to use all sorts of ideas to eliminate God or the need for God for the simple reason that if there is no God, there is no absolute right or wrong. If there is no right or wrong, there can be no sin, and therefore no accountability to a Higher Power for how we live our lives. Then it all becomes an argument of man vs. machine or the universe, and if we descend from some theoretical “big bang”, then there is no particular significance to ourselves or our individual pathetic existences.
On the other hand, if man is the created sons and daughters of the Great Creator Himself, then we have within us the seeds of divinity — whether we choose to accept that reality or not — and therefore are doing ourselves a huge injustice to ever think we are or should allow ourselves to be less than the best person each of us is capable of being, given our imperfect, fallen nature.
And as sons and daughters of God Himself, of course He being perfect would never esteem one of us as being more important than another, just as I look at my nine children and find great appreciation in their individualities without esteeming one above another. From that principle comes the endowment of inalienable rights by God, not by government.
I am perplexed, but not surprised at the elitism exhibited by those of “superior” education. For some reason, a degree from Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Yale, or others renders the recipient both socially and intellectually superior to the unwashed masses that graduated from some state college somewhere that nobody’s ever heard of.
Even to the point that the rest of us are morons and ignoramuses because of our educational disability.
I’m an engineer and a quite competent writer. Before my retirement, I worked about 3-4 hours per day in real productive work. Yet when I left, it took an MIT grad and two others to replace me — full time. But I graduated from a small state college most people have never heard of. And I graduated in a class of 23 students from high school. One of those students babysat two brothers who are currently in the US Congress and Senate, and one is being nominated as US Secretary of Interior.
My major professor was a farmer. My degree was a liberal arts degree in physics. And I’ll take that over a Harvard degree any day of the week.
Why?
Because I have noticed a simple fact: Some people have an excess of education, and that leads to constipation of the mind to the point that many of them are full of it.
As a physicist, I know if I find a tall building, get up on the roof, and jump over the side, I can assert at the top of my lungs, “I don’t believe in gravity!” but doing so will not affect the impact my carcass makes with the ground one whit.
And no matter the arguments by agnostics, atheists, et al regarding the non-existence of God, those arguments have no effect whatever on the truth that God exists, and we all are accountable to Him, our Father, for how we live our lives — whether we like it or not.
And when we are called before Him to be judged out of the books of records being kept by unseen observers of our thoughts and deeds, there will be no question of the meaning of the word “is”, or the “legality” of various “allowable” means of defrauding investors or taxpayers through government graft and corruption, and those power-hungry money grubbers of Wall Street and Washington will be required to repay the uttermost farthing — including the lost hopes and dreams of innocent widows and orphans whose meager means was robbed from them by unseen “money managers” who cared more for their limousine lifestyle than caring for those they were capable of helping, but wouldn’t.
Christ truly taught: “Even as ye have done it unto one of the least of these, my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” He then makes it clear those deeds, good or ill, will not be forgotten on that Great Day of Judgment.
Man’s ability to create marvelous machines and stunning technology is a gift from God and we are benificiaries. But those technologies are being given for a greater purpose than is recognized, even by many active participants in them. Therefore God will not allow machines to overthrow the free will of man.
We were created by God to be agents unto ourselves — to willfully select between good and evil. The test of this life is simple: Which of the two will we choose. When some choose evil, it brings consequences on others as well. But God will repay — in due time.
There is talk about a “culture war”. It is not a culture war. It is a fundamental battle between Good and Evil that has been raging since the before the world was even created, and we are full participants in that battle, whether we like it or not.
If we are found to be on the right side in that battle, it will be well with us. If not, the eternal opportunities that await will be quite different.
Clarke Echols
Thanks for your article.
Really does put things in perspective.
Here is a note from The New Scofield Study Bible on Gen 1:28:
This is the divine magna charta for all true scientific and material progress. Man began with a mind that was perfect in its finite capacity for learning, but he did not begin knowing all the secrets of the universe. He is commanded to “subdue,” i.e. acquire knowledge and mastery over the material universe, to bring its elements into the service of the race.
Again thanks for you article
Merry Christmas
Grace and Peace
This is well thoughtful of you…
I wrote a post on my blog tooo. I will be glad if you could take time to read it and also comment on it tooo.
Thanks
http://www.spiritofjesus.blogspot.com
Excellent article. Just think God knew about all this technology from the very beginning, Just wonder why it took all these years to get here. I guess a question we have to ask when we get to heaven. For those concerned about the troubles that go on every day around us I love these words of Jesus which give us assurance: “In this world you will have trouble, but take heart I have overcome the world”
Merry Christmas!
John F Hunt
twitter.com/johnfhunt
Great Article!
Alot of the things I also feel as truth.
Thanks and may 2009 be ever prosperous for you and yours.
Kim
As always, I love your writings, Perry, whether about AdWords, other pithy marketing topics, or musings in the realm of spirituality and personal growth.
Already checked out your email series at CosmicFingerprints.com. Time to see what CoffeeHouseTheology.com is all about.
(PS Minor typo in blog post above — the word “tree” appears twice in the phrase before “Zeus”.)
We can’t get too far spiritually, being self-centered and domineering.
I’m thinking a lot today about unconditional love, and how Jesus exemplified that (as well as and how I can work on that in my own life.)
After all, isn’t unconditional love part of our still voice within? And isn’t it also a great equalizer and equality-maker?
Many blessings and Merry Christmas Perry.
-John
P.S. I’m also thinking about why batteries still aren’t included in all toys that require them, especially when there’s no mention them not being included on the box…but that’s another story!
Merry Christ Mass (Christmas is derivative) Perry, to you and your family.
Hmm, “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32)
Empowering people to be all they are capable of being is a high calling that crosses through all areas of government, society and faith. I could go on for several paragraphs, but it’s time to get Christ Mass dinner started. Excellent post and message. May we all heed it.
“That God made a world which could operate consistently on its own without Him constantly making corrections from the outside.”
Then you have to belief that he created us based on the same reasoning.
Putting those two together, God created a self sufficient world with self sufficient individuals.
The tool God gave us that made all possible is ” FREE WILL”.
The same tool made it possible to be exactly where we at today.
The same tool will make it possible to be where we want to be tomorrow.
Thanks for the good reading….
Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year!
Earlier this year we visited the Wartburg castle where Luther translated the bible. It’s a three hour drive from here. During the whole tour around the castle Martin Luther was just mentioned towards the end. Only after the tour we got to see the room where Luther threw his inkpot at the devil. We actually had to ask where we can find the room.
It seems as if management tries very hard to make unknown Elisabeth von Thüringen the main attraction of the castle. When I asked why they would not make Luther the center of attraction of the castle the attendant got rude.
That in turn got a catholic group of schoolgirls from Bavaria angry who had to visit some religious sites on their classtour. The were really upset to hear about Elisabeth of Thuringia on Schloss Wartburg and not more about Martin Luther.
Even the most unsensible atheist would have to at least see sense from a marketing perspektive.
Obviously communism has left its tracks. When I moved here I was suprised how many people in Eastern Germany do not know what the bible or who Jesus is.
Luckily the internet enables everybody to make his own picture.
What more? I have the impression the more suppressed women are, the poorer the country.
Frohe Weihnachten
Markus Trauernicht
Perry,
Excellent article. Thanks.
A very Blessed Christmas to you and your family as you travel between Chicago and God’s country here in Nebraska!
In Christ,
Charlie
Perry,
You quoted Paul writing, “In Christ there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, slave nor free. All are equal in Christ Jesus.”
Of course Paul was speaking to those who were followers of Jesus Christ saying that in “Christ” this was to be true. And Paul went on to say that those who were in Christ were also heirs in the promise that God gave to Abraham.
It is interesting to see how so many others who are not “in Christ” have found freedom at some level because of this concept being applied to others who are not yet in Christ.
As American’s I think that we, or at least myself and others that I do business with, tend to extend this belief to others and that the words from the US Declaration of Independence “that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” are part of our internal wiring and so we project that to others outside of our own country.
I find that I do this more now as I’m connected with staff in the Philippines, a php programmer in Shanghai and a WordPress developer in Pakistan. I believe that the technology we use and especially the Internet is helping to not only make the world seem smaller but for freedom and equality to spread to others that have not known it before in their homelands.
It is good to remember that without the Christmas story the world would not have the hope that believers in Christ have or, for that matter, those who have yet to put their trust in Him.
Thanks for this interesting perspective on how all this fits together and makes sense to the world that is looking to find something to trust in. Equality and technology, do go together for those of us who are involved in this new form of business using the Internet to sell products/services and connect with each other.
Have a Blessed Christmas!
Henry Griner
Internet Marketing
Technology Consultant
What a coincidence that you are writing about new technology as I read your blog and leave a comment using the brand new amazon kindle my wife got me for christmas.
Very well put! Thank You Perry.
I am continually amazed at the attitude displayed by those that emphatically deny the existence or….. Importance of our Creator and Savior. Their very lack of recognition as to the profound and lasting effects of Jesus and his action speaks of a much deeper disconnect from humanity. Whether the words were written from Jesus himself, Paul the epistle writer or some guy back in the 17th century is completely irrelevant because, the very essence of those words written in the Bible, speak of a source much greater than authors themselves. As a man who has endeavored with the sincerest of intentions to embark upon greatness only to fail miserably many times over I have come to realize that there is a higher source that is spurring me on to reach the prize. Despite the numerous obstacles and challenges encountered, my ability to endure is proof positive of God and his existence.
Problem is… perception is skewered. As these men persevered to let the world know of the eternal truth revealed in there hearts, they would pay the ultimate price for it. There would not be any turning back upon the commencement of the journey. Something was a’ stirring in their boots to declare “I’ve got to do this”. Reality is some people can’t decide to quit their job to start a new business because they are not sure if it will work out. With that being said, let’s not kid ourselves. Everything we have is because of his enormous Grace. It is a good thing that I am not GOD because this world would have been toast. And that is the point.
GOD’s love. His ways are higher than our ways. The very freedom with the very same tongue that was shaped by Jesus himself, used to curse him of his existence, was brought with the ultimate price so that the seeds of freedom could spread forever upon the fertile soil of planet earth. But, as I‘ve have gotten older, mankind’s disdain for GOD no longer bother me because GOD is not bother by it. As matter of fact he welcomes the challenge open and heartily. It was stated (not sure where) that Hate is not the opposite of Love. It is emotional Apathy. If hate is present, then that is an emotion that GOD is more than willing to shed light on to heal as with all men throughout the ages. Apathy is much more of a subtle danger.
How do we know this? Saul of Tarsus. He despised Christ and his followers with a passion unmatched by none with his whole zealous being to make it his life mission to exterminate any one who would dare utter name the name of Christ. Yet, he wrote a large portion of the New Testament and revolutionized the secular world. Supposedly a Jew’s Jew. How’s that for ironic!
We celebrate Christmas every year but, it is really Christ giving of himself every day. Ultimately is Christ purpose and plan to celebrate everyday in a perpetual gift-giving festival because that is his nature.
Merry Christmas
Lorenzo
Why must you say, “according to historical accounts” Jesus rose from the dead? You are speaking of a man who has been dead for over 2000 years! Clearly he has risen. Your essay — your acknowledgment of the spirit defining his life — stands as proof.
In the same manner not only is it written Jesus walked on water, but it is proven he continues doing so to this very day. (Water being an essential element sustaining life, to “walk on water” is to transcend life, which is precisely what Jesus does, even now. Thus, the power of his name.)
It’s funny you should mention Gutenberg. On my website under “Things I Believe” I have written, “The internet is the greatest invention since Gutenberg’s printing press.”
You mention “the forward march of technology began after the fall of the Roman Empire and has marched steadily forward ever since.”
Regrettably, though, its progress has not been so steady. The one historically consistent intervening force thwarting technological progress has been the doing of those acting to serve mammon over God (these might be largely grouped by their common financial power). Greed born of this force has on many occasions acted as the anti-Christ thwarting our most natural yearning to find equality for ourselves, but also to influence its ascendancy for the sake of others. Yet we have as much ourselves to blame for this as the world around us…
This post shared a lot of food for thought. As I am in college, it wasn’t too long ago, I was discussing much of this among my classmates, doing research, etc.
What fascinates me is how quickly the world is evolving technologically and otherwise since the Bible has been translated and therefore read and interpreted by pretty much everyone who can read. The Bible is interpreted by everyone in their own way. It speaks to all of us with different meanings. And I think its supposed to be that way. We shouldn’t argue or disagree over it.
I also strongly agree with what your friend said about why our country elected Obama. Having pride in your country is great, but more of us take pride in the whole world. Together, as one human race, we have accomplished so much. Let us be proud of our God and His Creation. Over time, nationality is becoming less important. We are moving away from thinking about what is best for our country and towards thinking about what is best for everyone everywhere.
One thing I would like to add is the importance of transportation such as planes, automobiles, and ships that allow people to travel quickly to far off places. This has also helped in the developments of technology, equality, and spirituality.
I hope people take to heart what you said about using the Internet to empower others. We can all do that with our words – both written and spoken.
Merry Christmas and Happy New year to you and your readers!
Nice write Perry – engaging as always!
I think however, you ought to reread Plato/Socrates and Aristotle on Equality as despite you referencing Alexis de Tocqueville, Your statement:
¨ The concept of equality came first from Paul.¨
Is entirely untrue.
Kindest regards, Jimbo Thomas.
I want to thank you for taking the time to state your belief. Like many of us this belief is what keeps us moving forward each day.
Merry Christmas God bless!
I love your comment, I so agree and to all a very MERRY CHRISTMAS! May this year bring us all to that equality of oneness and one mind.
Hi Perry
Thank you for this forthright piece. I totally agree with it. Have you read any of Brian D McLaren’s books? I think you would enjoy them.
By the way, Christ didn’t think of equality first, it was God’s idea in the first place. Have a look at two little verses – Genesis 1:26 and 27, rarely quoted correctly.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Thanks again for these words and for all you do to give to the world Perry.
Love and blessings
Jenni Wright
Perry’s Christmas message is wonderful, inspiring and needed in these uncertain times.
In the same way that he describes the startling revelations people discovered in the Bible, we have much printed material on the Internet that are waking people up to political truths they never dreamed of. I’m speaking of the truths about who is dismatling the freedoms and way of life in our beloved America.
Just like the religious elite back in Luther’s time misled the average person, so are today’s politial elitists. Just like WE are responsible to learn the truth about the God of the Universe, WE are responsible to know what is really happening to our country and our world.
Just like the religious leaders are NOT responsible for our spiritual well-being, so are our Congressmen NOT responsible for protecting our liberties – I AM…YOU ARE… WE ARE.
God created this incredibly beautiful country and he helped men secure some freedoms here. These leaders did their best to protect our liberties by writing the Constitution of the United States. But it was never assumed that each generation would gain the benefits of those freedoms without struggling, even fighting, to maintain them.
We have been asleep on our watch and are losing freedoms faster than we can say goodbye to them.
I have discovered a little document that has helped me to understand who is behind the misleading of Americans. It is on a little website called http://www.TheTinySpark.com
There are 2 free documents on that site. One is George Washington’s prophecy about the 3 wars that are fought on our soil (one is coming in the future). The other is about who is dismantling the freedoms in our country NOW. I was very surprised to learn who they are. They are not at all they people I had suspected or had been told were the culprits.
Finding out the truth is up to each one of us. The Bible is there for our spiritual guidance and the Internet can offer us the political truths we need to protect our freedoms, religious and otherwise.
Read the Dismanting Report on TheTinySPark.com. If you think it’s as enlightening as I think it is, use it to tell others why our financial situation is tanking — and what can be done about it. This report is not copyrighted.
Thank you, Perry, for your encouraging Christmas message. May you and everyone reading this blog have a prosperous New Year. God bless you all and God help us take back our lost freedoms.
Dusty
I really enjoyed this article Perry. Well said!
Merry Christmas and God bless.
-Don
Perry:
It’s good a fellow Illinois resident is injecting some religious elements, with the context of history, geography, and other academic disciplines. Happy Holidays.
Randy
Merry Christmas to you, too, Perry. You are a wonderful man and may you always share your gifts of inspiration across the internet. I know you will.
Many blessings,
Lois
Great article, Perry.
Citing the Declaration makes me want to add that between freedom and equality, equality is by far the more damaging force in the modern Western world.
In come circles, your noting the people are not all equal and in every way upsets some. Same folks who would be upset about frank talk about the cultural benefits the West has recievied from Christianity.
Equality in the eyes of the law, and equality in the sense that all people are due their liberty is valuable. The problems start when governments begin enforcing equality in every corner of our lives. It leads to moral relativity, cultural relativism, and paradoxically, retreat from a culture and government which respects man’s freedom to choose his course in life, to enjoy the fruits of those choices, and yes, to sometimes screw up and suffer (and then LEARN).
America was founded and prospered on liberty. She lost her way on the day she decided that (enforced) equality is more important than individual liberty.
Perry,
I personally think that your article is right on, but frankly – all too politically correct! First of all, the convergence of man and the machine, is more or less unavoidable. The trouble lies not within the ability of the machines, but more so with the elite, and even more specifically, who runs the elite. Oh yes, I think we are going to see a bunch of very sophisticated robots and other apparatus to help us to cope with our daily chores. But I am sure the machine will always be there as a tool, handling routine matters, however complex it may be. But there’s one exception; if we can not spot that power hungry elitist minded dictator early enough, (as an example, there’s abundance of them in the recent history to choose from) we indeed may be doomed. These guys, or gals, just cannot see it any other way. For some reason, they believe they must have it all. And yes, they will risk a lot get it, they will really work hard to get it. When you and I may pause for a break, they will not. When you and I think we should really give some time to our families, they will not. Their number one priority in life is to control others any which way they can. I am old enough to say that without malice. I myself have worked for such individuals. In my heart of hearts I felt they were dangerous, but, just like a good slave I was, I just followed the orders. For the most part of my life. And I consider myself a fairly free thinking individual. But I was able to reclaim some of this freedom just recently. I did projects and jobs for an individual who, as a CEO of a large company acted like a little child, screaming and yelling to his employees, behaved like an idiot, and yet, most employees took the abuse. Yes, he has a nice little trick that he uses, generally speaking he pays fairly well, or at least on time, and his fear concept has to do with “I will take care of you”, that is to say, if you just accept his way, you will get paid, and be “taken care of” for the rest of your life. So if you believe that, then you will also believe the opposite, if you leave “you will not be taken care of”. So, acting totally ruthlessly without much regard to his own people, except of course the very top, although they too, are at the mercy of his daily mood swings, he gets away with it, continues to build his empire. Cold shivers go down my spine when I think what he could do if he had the chance to control the elite and the machines. The last time when we met, he gave me a ration of his mind, to which I said; no matter who you are and how much you own, I will not continue working for you, ever. He of course started the all too familiar “you will never find work, you will never make it on your own” bla, bla, bla. And yes, he may have done some short term damage. But who cares. I hope your readers would take notice, and stand up to these thugs, before they get too much power. If these guys or gals, call the shots in the future, we are in for a shock. Believe me.
Perry,
Really enjoyed your article. Although I myself am not a religious person, I do believe in Christ as the Son of God and He is the true Reason for the Season. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for letting me share and thank you Perry for the awesome Christmas article. I will definitely be forwarding to friends & family.
God Bless & Merry Christmas to all!
Dave Pfiester
Perry,
A great write up and we need many more write ups on Christmas and what it means because people have lost the meaning and gone after shadows.
Jesus is the reason for the season and we must never forget this. I find it a mazing that the world refuses to accept Him as Lord and saviour yet on their death beds they call for Him.
Secondly, why does the world come to a standstill in the UK as far as transportation is concerned on Christmas day ONLY Christmas day.
Answer: Jesus is Lord.
Grace
http://www.instantreviewspro.blogspot.com
Perry: “Belief in rationality comes from belief in a rational God. A God who wants us to discover His universe. For whom such discovery is an act of worship.” That’s interesting… your own interpretation? Or from somewhere else? I do think God, the Creator, gave us a mind to use and think for ourselves. But, I do think there is danger in “belief in rationality” rather than faith in God the Creator. Reason and science cannot prove the existance of God the Creator, that requires faith. That is precisely why we now have a society of “educated” persons who denounce Christ, Christianity, and the faithful. The “educated” secular society in which we now live (Western civilization) has replaced faith in God the Creator with faith in reason and technology. Reason is a gift, the ability to use our minds to discern truth vs. false, good vs. evil, but it is no substitute for faith.
Thank you Perry, for your boldly stated insights.
Christ and Paul were revolutionary in the recognition they gave to the unlimited value inherent in the individual human spirit.
And whatever doubts we have about whether progress really exists, we can agree that it’s a hallmark of a civilized society is to share that recognition.
But I’d like to piggy back just a bit about something implicit in what you wrote, that too often doesn’t receive the emphasis it should.
It’s the tradeoff we often make when we forget that we are, as Aristotle would say, social creatures as well. And that side of our nature is often lost as seek to expand our individual liberty.
Paul and Jesus always made sure to remind their followers of the duty they owed those who suffer. To widows and orphans and strangers who may be without shelter.
As you illustrated, we’re able, like never before to communicate and build friendships with people we may see only once every few years, or not at all.
But communication is not community. True friendships are only forged in the context of a shared vision of what is good.
We should never forget that Jesus’ and Paul’s ministries were “hands on.” One of the thing’s I’ve recognized in the last few years is that to follow Christ is to love the things he loves.
To do that, we must seek out the welfare of the city we live in. We should not act as if we are only passing through.
There are all sorts of opportunities to roll up your sleeves and get dirty with those less fortunate. Perhaps today is a good day to look around and see if there’s someone in your city, on your block or in the house next door who could use a little help.
Giving money is nice and is required of us, but our time and effort are equally important, if not moreso.
Excellent article, Perry! Thanks for provocing reflection on these issues.
I think your claims are valid, but I have trouble with the exclusivity of the idead chain and the causal chain they imply.
It is widely recognised that the fundamental truth and principle shared by all major religions is the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you wish them to do unto you. If this is not a seed of equality and democracy, I know not what is.
These funadamental principles are imbedded in the Universe itself and have found clearest expression in the humanist-spiritualist traditions rather than in the organised religious theologies.
This is why your argument for the link between science, technology, equality and democracy is your strongest point. These connections is what lead us in the direction of liberation from the the clutches of organised religion and into the discovery of our common humanity and dignity and the freedom to share the abundance of the earth and the wealth of the creative human spirit.
Thanks again for raising these issues.
Good word. Thanks for sharing.
The original thing that separated man from God was they chose not to trust Him.
The way back is to trust Him.
It’s that simple.
“…that whosoever believes shall not perish but have eternal life”.
“…and this is eternal life, to know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.
Trust and obedience: These are the foundation of a true relationship with God.
Cling to, adhere to, rely upon Jesus. He fulfills His promises, indeed, He cannot lie, for He cannot deny Himself.
Hi Perry, Larry here I loved your article. I wish only I could express myself like you did. Thanks
Cheese Perry, you sure bought out the god-botherers in numbers on this one.
No doubt a lot of people believe in a god of one brand or another.
I stand against those who already know who or what god is.
I am not in awe of the self righteous bigoted views of those still living on a 6000 year old planet with their invisible friend.
Take a 10 second look at what religion has bought to the world. Fear, war and hate.
Religion is yet another way to display the human condition and it’s dirty DNA.
It will not be anyone’s god that helps mankind. It will be those who can put this superstitious clap-trap behind them long enough to stop arrogantly declaring that they hold the truth, so that they can seek it.
I have read the bible and would describe it’s god as a psychopathic vengeful 6 year old.
I am a very imperfect man, but I would never treat any life form is such a disgusting way as the god of allah or christ.
You are all wankers in my book.
Amen and amen!
Well said Perry, well said.
js
Totally new to your site and your name, but I plan to visit often and read more. For now, just a minor matter. You quote the Declaration….as we hold these things…
I always thought it was “we hold these truths”
Am I wrong?
Richard
“Take a 10 second look at what religion has bought to the world. Fear, war and hate.”
So by that logic, without religion there would be no fear war or hate?
Ridiculous to blame ideologies which generally preach peace, love, and understanding for all of the destructive actions of men.
Even if you do not believe in God, is it too much to ask that you not insult people who do?
Bill Hayden,
You said:
“The “educated” secular society in which we now live (Western civilization) has replaced faith in God the Creator with faith in reason and technology. Reason is a gift, the ability to use our minds to discern truth vs. false, good vs. evil, but it is no substitute for faith.”
I don’t think this is a defensible statement. Faith is simply belief. I wont deny that it is a powerful belief for those who have it, but a belief is exactly that. Reason, on the other hand, is concerned with empirical research, repeatable experiments, observed patterns and facts. It is concerned with what is provably and inarguably so. Seems to me that this is a *perfect* substitute for faith. But let’s put it to the test (this is an open question for anyone on this webpage, atheist or believer.)
Name a practical situation where having faith would be more advantageous than applying reason? For example, a time when some actual person solved some pressing, thorny problem using faith, and where reason would not have worked as well or better.
(Don’t mean to rain on anyone’s Christmas, I just believe – there’s that word again – in the idea of respectful and high-spirited debate!)
Excellent. I do find it amazing that two millenniums later, there is one whose birthday is celebrated world-wide, Jesus. While opinion and debate, blame and criticism will be heard until your and my final day, those that seek Jesus are promised to find truth … and blessing.
Amen! and Hallelujah!
Ern: faith isn’t something that only belongs to “religious” people. Fear is nothing but faith in reverse, it’s putting faith in bad things happening. People who have faith in God and eternal life are not ruled by fear, and that’s because of Jesus Christ. I can understand your being critical of religions for abuse of power and fear mongering, and I would agree and stand with you against that… but that’s not my perception of faith, and not what I think Jesus Christ taught. The tone of your post, in a word I would say is: intolerant. To me, that’s a red flag… exactly what I see in secular society (which is itself a “religion” whether you choose to admit it or not) toward those people of faith in God, especially Christians.
Way to go Perry! you have some points there! as Pan Gloss would say . Alls for the best in an impossible world” perhaps under a
socialization spell of sorts . its all wonder- full and awful in some way or another . work with what you;ve got,hhhhmmm try a good way, weather scientific ,spiritual,cosmological,absurdity. what ever you choose leads to compost eventually . ho ho hehe merryments ,mints ,mucho fun moments to all and to all agood life, peace out!
Thanks Perry,
I greatly appreciated this unexpected bonus on Boxing Day morning in Canberra, Australia.
I want to recommend two books. The first is ‘Surprised by Hope’ by Tom Wright, Bishop of Durham (therefore probably not a crackpot) and one of the world’s leading New Testament scholars. I have been a Christian for over 40 years. I am an ordained Anglican minister. This has been the most transformative book I have ever read. Here’s the essence of the book, and indeed what underpins Tom Wright’s writings.
‘Through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God’s Kingdom has been launched on earth as in heaven, generating a new state of affairs in which the power of evil has been defeated, the new creation has been decisively launched, and Jesus’s followers have been commissioned and equipped to put that victory and that inaugurated new world into practice.’ ‘Jesus is Lord and Caesar isn’t, Mammon isn’t, Apprhodite isn’t, Mars (the God of war) isn’t.’
The second book is on understanding our daily work from a Christian perspective. It is by Miroslav Volf, and is called ‘Work in the Spirit: Toward a Theology of Work’. Here is the essence of this wonderful, empowering book.
‘ . . . all work that survives the test of God’s judgment has eternal significance. All work that is in keeping with God’s purposes is therefore done in cooperation with God. In Volf’s understanding, “the noble products of human ingenuity will be cleansed from impurity, perfected and transfigured, to become part of God’s new creation.”‘
It is easy to see the profound effect this view could have on our daily work. The belief that one’s work can have eternal significance in its contribution to humankind and God’s creation is transformative.
Regards
Andrew Hingeley
Hi Perry,
Thanks so much for your article. It really blessed my heart to know that you are a Believer!
All (good) things come from God. According to the Bible, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are ONE. Jesus said (If you have seen me, you have seen the Father. After His resurrection, and His return to Heaven, He sent the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide us until He returns. He will return for those who have (believed) in Him. Yes, He lives today because He lives within my heart and therefore I can face all of my tomorrows.
In order to know Him, we must (believe) that He is all He said He is. The (only) way to Heaven is through belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I appreciate the way you linked spiritual things with technology. Philippians 4:13 says:
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Our world is a mess today because our leaders, over time, have failed to recognize the Creator of all things. They have removed prayer from our schools and other places, but Jesus also said: The gates of hell shall not prevail against His church. With Christ, we win!
Jesus Christ IS my peace no matter the troubles around me.
Merry Christmas to you and your family and thanks for a beauty article. I enjoyed reading it.
Delores Darden
Greetings . One of the finest posts , that I have ever read .
Well Done .
If the ” us verse them ‘ mentality , which is diminishing , could be
further reduced to ” united we stand , divided we’re dead ” , THEN
just maybe , as a species we can fix the mess that we are creating of our own home .
Read back through history . Our species has always built Spiritualities to control the masses . Stoneage to Spaceage , people
teach us that they know about what we can not understand .
Those Spiritual Leaders , have great conferences and meetings , to
discuss their interpretation , of what they teach . They do not
even agree with each other , about what to teach . Everyones
interpretation , about some Spiritual Reality , is open to change .
Meanwhile we are destroying this beautiful Earth , and fighting
the War on Terror , and fulfill those Spiritual Leaders idea of our
Prophseied Destiny . This can be changed with education about
our geological history , and billions of years of our ancestors hard
work at survival , to pass down their ” GIFT of LIFE ” to their
offspring , you and me .
Buddha , was a man , who taught others about his ideas on how
to live . Apparently Buddha taught others , not to worship him as
a God , but as a man . People being people , disobeyed him , and
built great statues , to pray to , as a God .
Did Jesus , give us similar instructions , that our Leaders did not see profit , in passing on to us ?
Spirituality , is important to most people . By joining a group ,
an individual , automatically becomes opposed , to people who
follow a different group . Religion always leads to War .
Mother Nature is all around us . She is a wonderful Mother .
Our species are destroying our Mother , quarreling bickering and
arguing about their idea , of who our Father really is .
Education can change this . It all boils down to , What do you chose to read . Spirituality OR Reality . What idea do you follow ?
Thank you for your post . Sincerely , for Peace and Prosperity Ron
Dear Perry,
Thank You for your article. I do think its a shame that we let our government take God out of school, government and discipline in school. After all was our country not fonded on In God WE Trust. And the Pledge of Alliance which we all grew up with. I think this country needs a little more religion and we truley do need to learn to Love our neighbors. And our kids in this country needs discipline and maybe their wouldn’t be as much violents in our world today. Anyway thank you again for your article.
Merry Christmas and God Bless you and your family.
Carol Holman
Hi Perry,
Great Piece, I enjoyed it.
Very enlighting responsive and emotionally guided. You should be very proud. The comments are a great addition. Merry Christmas and A Very Happy New Year To You. Thanks,
Julie
merry christmas
Perry,
Very thoughtful article, thank you. In a somewhat related spirit, but one that addresses the other Abrahamic religions, I would recommend watching Karen Armstrong’s talk at last spring’s TED conference.
http://tinyurl.com/6gz77c
Merry Christmas
Andy
‘Take a 10 second look at what religion has bought to the world. Fear, war and hate.’
Perry quoted Rodney Stark’s book “The Victory of Reason”. Rodney Stark has also written a brilliant book entitled ‘the Rise of Christianity’. Read it to find out, amongst many other things, how the early Christians cared for the sick, often at the cost of their own lives, in two massive plagues (each of which wiped out around one third of the population of Europe) in the second and third centuries. Learn too how Christianity transformed the status of women.
Fear, war and hate? I don’t think so!
1) In response to Jay Cross:
It would a great misconception to assume that faith and reason are at odds. In 1931 the great mathematician Kurt Goedel proved mathematically that any system of logic or reasoning requires assumptions, that while perhaps self evident and necessary, are not provable.
That no system of logic can be completely self-consistent. For example a high school geometry book that’s full of proofs and theorems has certain starting premises that you “know” are true – must be true – but simply cannot be proven no matter how hard you try.
A simple way of summarizing Goedel’s theorem would be: “Nothing that you can draw a circle around cannot completely explain itself. It always references or implies something outside of that circle.”
Prior to Goedel’s incompleteness theorem, many mathematicians were very optimistic that they were closing in upon a completely self-consistent system of logic; that the foundations of mathematics would be established on new ground, and that ultimately, a theory-of-everything would emerge.
Goedel’s theorem demolished this belief and sent the mathematicians and philosophers reeling. Because what he proved was literally that logic and reason cannot even exist without faith. You always begin with a starting assumption you cannot prove.
Which is to say that faith and reason go hand in hand. One is needed for the other to exist.
Anyone who has practiced real science experiments for any length of time has personal experience with this. The core scientific presupposition of underlying order is a perfect example of this. You cannot prove it in advance, you can only asssume it and then demonstrate that the assumption is rewarded by your experiments.
2) Ern Langmaid said: “Take a 10 second look at what religion has bought to the world. Fear, war and hate.”
Religion has undoubtedly abused, make NO mistake about that… but there’s another side of that coin.
I’ve got a book on my bookshelf in my library called “The Black Book of Communism” and it documents the genocide of 160 million people in the 20th century alone, mostly done by atheist governments.
Who could forget the human rights advances of Lenin, Stalin, Chairman Mao and Pol Pot? Secularists like to lay a lot of problems at the feet of religion. And I’ll echo the sentiment. The first murder in the Bible (Cain and Abel), what was it over? Was it not jealousy in regards to the worship of God?
Nevertheless religion’s track record of murder and destruction pales in the face of what secularism has accomplished.
Also, we must never omit the thousands of hospitals, orphanages and shelters built by millions of devout, unselfish atheists. Case in point: Does not every city and town have a Richard Dawkins Memorial Hospital, a St. Stalin Community Health Center, a Voltaire Homeless Shelter, a Friedrich Nietzsche Home for Orphan Girls and Boys?
And of course who can deny the hundreds of busloads of secularists and people from Infidels and other skeptic organizations who organized themselves and went down to New Orleans to help the Hurricane Katrina victims?
If we’re going to keep score, let’s remember to add up the points on both sides.
If I must make a choice, I prefer witch hunts, crusades and religious wars (tens of millions dead) to atheism (hundreds of millions dead).
Fortunately, one need not be forced to choose between the two. One can choose to obey Jesus’ command to “Love your neighbor as yourself” and decide not to hate, not to fear, not to wage war.
Perry Marshall
Thanks for this post. It saddens me how many are blinded by the evil one and cannot see the truth. “That Christ Jesus came into the World to save sinners”
I pray that others will see the truth and come to know Jesus as their Lord and saviour.
By the way. Holiday comes from Holy Day and as such still acknowledges God and His day.
May God bless your message and the Christian ones that follow as God says “My word does not return to me empty”
I look forward to your Easter message.
May God bless you and your family Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year,
I have one word for this post.. AMEN!
Thank you Perry for the wonderful post.. have a very, merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year!!
Perry,
I am Jewish- so I might try and argue certain points–but instead I want to thank you for standing on principal of your faith, and having the conviction to see how faith carries itself over into our world today.
Thanks,
Jeffrey
I am a Christian and I don’t celebrate nor practice xmas; and when people wish it to me I respond but rarely do I listen. I read yours Perry because at least you spoke about Jesus. If the reason for the season is the birth of Christ; at least have the decency to let it be about Him.
Santa, xmas trees, raindeers, 10% off at Macy’s
(during a depression/recession), has nothing to do with Jesus. We pretty much know it’s not His birth; is’s a pagan festival; but if you want to give the season some light because you assume it’s about Jesus; at least deal with Him and what He means to the earth.
Nehemiah
Amazing article! I am inspired that you can make a life for your family, help and inspire others and still proclaim your belief system despite the unpopularity and hostility towards Christianity. Thank you for being a good example of how a Christian business man should be. I’ve subscribed to dozens of free auto emails, but you and Seth Godin keep giving me practical gems to improve my business that are always delivered creatively. I can’t wait to be able to become one of your paying customers. I hope for the best to you and your family for this wonderful Christmas day and a great 2009! To God be the glory! Dat To
Hello Perry!
Great post Perry. It’s so refreshing to hear “Merry Christmas” and to see Christ being so rightfully put back in the center of this day… and of our lives.
I’m so glad that I’ve read your words and find out that we share faith in the same Lord. I’ve always appreciated your honesty and now understand where it comes from!
Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Yvon-Pierre
I am new to this site Perry, I was not sure what to expect. But I am thankful after reading you comments. Your insight is filled with wisdom, and I appreciate it. In this day an age it is politically incorrect, to say that you love Jesus. This is the day when the Bible says they will call evil good and good evil.
Where there are people there will always be a difference of opinion. Here is one thing I can say; Know you the truth, and it will make you free. That truth is JESUS.
Have a Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year.
Blessings
Earl
Well said.Many Saints and Sages came on this Earth to show the right path towards God. They uttered holy words and the man of the time could not got benefitted from them.Now those holy Words are in Holy Books. And man of the day is worshiping these Books without trying to understand the meanings of the holy words. Hence,has become a stagnant water,oozing out pungent smell.The Holy Words of those Saints are like a path on which man can go and achieve new heights in spirituality. GOD is so vast and non-describable that no one,on this earth,could know him fully. And there are limitless chances for the man to progress in the field of spirituality. Since God is limitless hence his knowledge is also limitless. No one can claim that he knows God fully and if he claims, he is a big liar.Saints had never claimed this.
With the help of these Holy Books we can gain knowledge of God as per our capacity. Holy Books never claim that these are the end of God’s knowledge/description.
Thanks Perry
I just completed a business success book with closing comments discussing real success – being right with God. I’ve been struggling whether to keep or remove the comments. Your example has convince me to keep them. Thanks
Perry,
I see what you’re saying. However, does it follow, from that, that *religious* faith is warranted? The unprovable Geometric proofs strike me as a very different type of faith than placing trust in an unseen God (whom many power-hungry people seem eager to speak for.)
Also…
I don’t see the legacy of scientific curiosity or openness to new ideas in religion that you seem to. Rather, I look at history and see a creed that has hermetically sealed itself from virtually all advancements that encroach on its pre-conceived notions of the world.
For example, I believe the Catholic Church just accepted the heliocentric theory of the universe this decade! And it took them until 1992 to admit that they might have been a little harsh on that Galileo guy…
I would like to read the Victory of Reason. Maybe it would change my mind.
Loved your post Perry. All this politically correctness is out of hand. “In God We Trust” and “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.” Amen! Have a “Merry Christmas!”
Thank you Perry for this inspiring post.
I recently heard a business commercial on the radio and applauded its Christmas message. The message began with saying that in this day and age where people are told they must not mention Jesus for fear of another taking offense, it needs to be remembered, as you stated as well, “In Christ there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, slave nor free. All are equal in Christ Jesus.”
Allowing me the joy of my beliefs does not take away the beliefs of others but instead enhances those beliefs. It amazes me, and probably always will, that offense is so strongly taken over a belief that is so profoundly good.
I wish for you and your family the joy and blessings of this Christmas season. May all who read your post be equally blessed.
Sherry
Perry,
You mentioned:
“…160 million people in the 20th century alone, mostly done by atheist governments.”
Ah, but there is a difference! When people pin blame for the Crusades on organized religion, it is because those wars and deaths were religiously motivated. There were serious religious underpinnings to those conflicts.
Atheism cannot be blamed for Stalin’s atrocities because the vast majority of them had nothing to do with atheism. Rather, the most logical explanation is that Stalin and Hitler simply manipulated the masses as pawns in their own narcissistic quests for power.
(I believe Richard Dawkins pointed out that blaming atheism makes about as much sense as blaming mustaches since Stalin and Hitler had them.)
Keep in mind: atheism in and of itself is not a philosophy. The only thing you can infer about an atheist as such is that he/she does not believe in God. That explains why there are atheist communists (ie, Stalin), and atheist capitalists/individualists (ie, Ayn Rand.)
Re: Clarke Echols post – excellent!
Re: Perry Marshall’s article…very thought provoking.
I love that Perry puts his faith on the line regardless of the consequences, financially or otherwise. It is an inspiration to me to keep the faith.
What a load of shyte!
Perry, I’ll consider seriously what you have to say about Adwords, but I’m getting pretty tired of your pro-Christian slant.
Help me out people, are all Americans really this ignorant and half-educated? Or is just the members of the Religious Right?
Is it really true, as George Carlin said, that America’s leading industry is the manufacturing, processing and distribution of b*llsh*t?
Perry, you continue to show me that it is.
“Paul gave us equality”, “Science succeeded because of Christianity” – give me a break!
What Gutenberg gave us was the ability to read books OTHER THAN the Christian Bible.
Perry, having set off on your own back in 2001, you may know much about marketing and Adwords, but when it comes to the ‘Bigger Picture’ your head is still in that Dilbert cubicle.
Stick to your day job.
And go watch the first part of a movie called “Zeitgeist”. It’s available for free, right here on the Internet.
Meanwhile, happy winter solstice everybody.
Dear Perry
Thanks for all your very interesting and thought provoking reads. i am intrigued to know your opinion of the the “heart” of man as being his subconscience, have you read any of Jim Richards books??
When you think about it, Jesus was the biggest “Launch” in history. There was a ton of pre-selling by scriptures and prophets. The message was viral in nature and good old word of mouth spread the news of the Birth (launch)far and wide.
Testimonials by established “gurus” were abundant and sincere.
Post-launch the proof was in the “product”. As it turns out, the Jesus software was, and still is, life changing.
As Jesus said, “of myself,I do nothing. I only do what the Father does through me.”
We all have that same software downloaded and installed in our systems. We only need to Activate and Run it.
“This and more you will do.” Jesus told us.
Gett beyond tour self – “die to the self,” as Jesus said, and what is left is Great Love, Great Compassion, and thy kingdom has come, thy will is being done, on earth as it is in heaven – is the new reality spread across the face of the earth and inside of us, yet we see it not” – Jesus.
You don’t need a religion and you don’t need a preacher, priest, or anyone else to interpret Jesus – “go into your interior room and pray in secret – be still, know the truth and the truth will make you free.”
Merry Christmas
Hi Perry
Great stuff,very insigthful.
Regards
Ron
Thank you for an inspiring reality check.
I’m thankful for a great internet neighbor like you and I encourage others to reach out and touch someone else with a thoughtful message like yours via the internet today as well as get out and go across the street to wish their physical neighbor a Merry Christmas.
Serving others as Jesus did brings great rewards!
Thanks,
Kole Freeman
Who was the most powerful man in the History of human beings?
Today,when we celebrate Christmas a thought of Jesus Christ is inevitable.He was born as Human being and gifted by God’s power to do many marvelous things,owned gift of prediction,and did what for all Mankind appears to be eternal Aspiration: to win death and being deathless.
In that way Jesus Christ got the attribute of the most powerful man ever born on Earth.Regarding to other religion Supreme Beings,he had that advantage to be not only spirit then physical Being as well..
I found this interesting on many levels. First being of mixed religous background(parents) I never have been able to understand why all wars have some basis in religion. I also don’t understand why it is important for those who don’t want to fight for their freedom should have it. I have also found that most people only believe the parts of their own religion that soots their needs and the rest they just can’t seem to find.
The next thing that struck me about this was that the writer earns his living completly contrary to this statement or because of it “it’s just that it’s easier for most of us to mindlessly follow some guru than to listen to God’s still small voice, and use the minds He gave us.”. Even though he provides an education and a great service many come to him because they don’t really want to do the work themselves just find an easy way to reep the benefits. They stay a while, pay a while and move on to the next guru. If they actually read what he sends them they could build on it without spending a dime,but that too would take effort.
Finally the secret to this business seems to be that you have to be able to read. Not just devower words but see the meaning in them. Most of the gurus that email me have this ability.Even a greater accomplishment is to then put that understanding into words so the rest of us can see what we couldn’t until explained to us.
I am happy to have read Perry’s article. It is very refreshing to hear a guy with a broad and insight full perspective on things.
It gives a very helpfull balance to keep things in the right place in the interest of everybody.So that there is progress in the end and not decline.
thanks and all my best,
Jorke van Eerten, Netherlands
Jay,
First, very cool Content Czar application you turned in. Will get to the next step on that shortly.
Second, faith in God is essentially NO different than the kind of thought process that Goedel’s incompleteness theorem invokes. In fact in my opinion the process is exactly the same, and for the exact same reasons.
I understand that to some people this might seem like a very strange statement, because they are under the impression that religious faith and scientific axioms are entirely different categories of things.
I say they are in fact essentially no different. The only difference is the size of the questions involved.
What I am arguing in my post is that the enterprise of science itself was only able to proceed after a specific theological and philosophical foundation was in place.
The theological foundation said: The world is a rational place. The universe operates according to fixed, rational laws. The universe is intelligible and understandable. The universe is elegant.
Again, referencing Goedel, this is not something you can prove in advance. You can only demonstrate the reasonableness of the assumption.
Greek and Roman and Chinese belief systems tried to give birth to science but failed because there was no theological foundation for science in their belief system. Islam tried too, but at least as best I can tell, Islam sees Allah’s will as inscrutable. Western Christianity had a philosophical foundation that could support scientific assumptions: that the world was ordered in weight and number and measure.
Christians believed that God’s designs were understandable by the human mind.
It’s no mere coincidence that a large percentage of the early great scientists (Galileo, Newton, Copernicus, Boyle, Maxwell and many others) were deeply religious.
I would like to suggest to you that atheism not only did not give birth to science (ostensibly so) but in fact *could* not. Atheism contains no a priori reason to assume that the universe is rational and intelligible. In biology today, atheism still presumes that the universe is purposeless and random. A symptom of the problem is failed theories such as ‘Junk DNA’.
Jay, I do understand that the version of the Galileo story you have heard makes it sound as though the Catholic church has just finally come around to agreeing with Galileo. But only a person who has never studied church history would believe such a thing.
If you thoroughly investigate what actually happened – pick up a two or three books by real historians that dig into the minutia of what went on with Galileo – you’ll discover the story you were told in school is incomplete at best and deceptive at worst.
There is a secular version of the history of science that most people are told which is no better than half true. Yes, the church has sometimes opposed real scientific discoveries. Absolutely true. But… so has the modern university. So has EVERY establishment. (Read “The Emperor of Scent” by Chandler Burr for a non-religious version of this phenomenon – a FANTASTIC book, and a true story.)
If you look at the greatest discoveries and progress in modern civilization, deep religious conviction has never been far away. You’ll never hear that from Richard Dawkins, but I submit to you that Dawkins’ books are beautifully written, incompletely argued, loaded with circular logic and straw-man arguments, and contain very little real scholarship.
The New Atheists (Dawkins, Hitchens, Randi, Dennett) have a stridency that can only be described as bigoted and prejudiced. If that’s who you get your education from, you deserve better.
Their willingness to demonize and grossly misrepresent religion and religious people is truly frightening. If you think this point of view is accurate, I invite you to consider some other authors. Rodney Stark would be a good start. As would John Polkinghorne, Stanley Jaki, and Alistair McGrath.
I think it’s interesting that Dawkins dismisses the crimes of atheist governments as a mere coincidence. Jay, ask yourself the question: If these people were not killing in the name of atheism then why did Mao and Stalin kill so many people for being religious? Why did they burn so many churches?
I don’t see how one can say that had nothing to do with atheism. Read “The Black Book of Communism” and decide for yourself.
China is still officially an atheist state. A close friend of mine used to live in China 5 years ago and he personally knew people who were harshly interrogated for days and jailed because they were Christians. One cannot possibly say that no one was persecuted in the name of atheism – because I have friends who have seen it with their own eyes, during this decade.
Could it be the person who tells you atheism’s role in the Stalin and Mao genocides was only a coincidence… is proselytizing you to become an atheist? Could it be that Dawkins’ books are tracts for the atheist belief system?
I must pay Richard Dawkins a compliment: I think he is one of the most brilliantly talented copywriters, publicists and spin doctors of our time. But the accuracy of the facts he presents is another story indeed. He is an absolute master of sleight-of-hand. His book “The God Delusion” is a 464 page sales letter for atheism.
Finally I would encourage you to read/listen to my own lecture on DNA, Information Theory and the Origin of Life. It’s called “If you can read this I can prove God exists” and the title is dead serious. So is the research behind it. I’ve been publicly defending it on the world’s largest atheist discussion board for 3 1/2 years. Read the debate here.
To the limit science can prove anything (science cannot formally prove, but it can infer), science gives us 100% inference to design in biology. Because the genetic code cannot be derived from the laws of physics. All codes we know the origin of are designed.
Sincerely,
Perry Marshall
Perry: You’re abusing mathematics, stop that.
It is true that mathematical systems require postulates, with are accepted as being self-evident. But self-evident is NOT faith! When I say that if a = b, and b = c, then a = c, am I accepting that on faith? No! I accept that because it’s self-evident to an intelligent being.
In Philosophy 101, we learn that the only absolutely provable thing is one’s own existence. We accept that because it’s self-evident. Do you take your own existence on faith? No — it’s self-evident, because you’re thinking.
This is entirely different from the concept of religion. Religious faith rests on a subjective feeling of truth. It’s untrue to say that religious faith is based on no evidence. The problem is that it’s based on *subjective* evidence — your feelings usually based on three things, 1) childhood feelings of the family religion, 2) the desire for “the answer”, and 3) the fear of death.
And just because we know that we must accept certain things as self-evident, doesn’t we are obligated to accept anything that comes along. Even if I accept your premise that mathematical axioms prove the need for religious faith, that does not tell us anything about whether there is a god, or if there is a god, what his nature is.
Go back and time and talk to some Greek person about Zeus. It will assure you with absolute conviction that Zeus exists. Because that’s how he was raised. Or go back and ask an ancient Egyptian about Ra. Or ask an islander about the volcano god. They will all be just as secure in their faith as you are in yours. Of course, every Christian has heard this argument before, and it doesn’t faze them, because “all those other people were just worshiping false idols, but *I* know the truth!” Can’t you see the inherent problem with that?
As for atheists and religious persecution, first, you need to adjust that for the number of people killed by atheists *because* they were not atheists. Then you need to adjust all the religious massacres per capita to the world populations involved.
And to say that no atheists open hospitals, etc, is simply wrong and somewhat bigoted, I’m afraid. There are numerous secular organizations. They just don’t wear a religion as a badge on their chest. They just do good works, as it should be. Religious people don’t have a monopoly on morals and good deeds. This is the one thing you’ve posted that has disappointed me, I’m afraid.
Thanks for this Perry it is outstanding, as are many of your posts. Always uplifting and filled with the great hope of tomorrow. In HIM all things are possible for sure.
Harry
One thing that you have proven with your various writings, Perry, is that with the proliferation of the internet the spoken word affects only those within earshot but the written word is heard around the world.
One might also reflect that what makes most things imperfect is that humans are involved. There is not much doubt that the Declaration of Independence is the absolute best constitution ever written.
However with all it’s glory it still allowed it’s people to keep at least one race in bondage for more than 150 years and refused to let another segment vote simply because of gender.
One wonders why from such greatness there could be such terrible failures. Yes origins of the founding fathers, politics and the times in which they lived played a part in their decision making. But still these are not simple exceptions to some citizens rights. They are monumental.
The only reasoning I can apply is that all of this was designed by humans. The same humans who for years allowed that God should be a part of our country and it’s everyday functions.
Now because one man decided that he did not want his daughter to hear a prayer or a pledge of allegiance which mentioned the word god, many of us meekly stand by while God is removed from almost every inch of public life including the once harmless “Merry Christmas” as you mentioned.
Thank you for your thoughts. It is good, I believe, at this time of year with a new year dawning to reflect on what our generations have left for our children and grandchildern and know that most of us have thoughts and needs other than financial.
May 2009 be fruitful for all and may it be the last year that even one person goes to bed with an empty belly.
Chet Hastings
I am just a “baby” at getting started in this whole internet marketing thing. I have subscribed to many newsletters and quite frankly don’t have time to read them all. Bear with me here…after today’s post from you, I will definately be reading and following your information.
It was an absolute joy to see a fellow Christian so eloquently defend his faith in a VERY public way. Because of your boldness, you have let me know that you are a man of integrity who can be trusted in this sea of endless people offering to “help” my business. Thank for your that and may our Lord Jesus Christ bless you and yours this coming year.
Merry Christmas!!
Thanks Perry for the timely article. I for one respect the fact that you don’t hide your faith.
I pray the Lord will continually bless your business this coming year and use your skills to help others find a way to find success in their lives.
Billy Barton
The message below is for all readers and not for anyone particular.
History is interesting to many. Written history, however, isn’t always 100% factual. Some events can sometimes be seen differently via different viewpoints. Therefore, who is really right/correct?
Can all sometimes be correct?
Choices need not separate us, unless one’s EGO is involved. EGO makes us choose sides, moving us away from LOVE and at times towards WAR.
What TRULY works is that which moves us towards LOVE.
My point: Remember, everyone, use history to move us forward together, not to separate anyone. This is a global world, more so now than yesterday.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!
Perry,
love the article.
Love Jesus.
Nough’ said
– Caleb
Perry,
Thanks for digging deep, and showing us that the greatest searches in life are not done on Google.
Merry Christmas-
Dave
Thank you Perry for this encouraging message.I got blessed by reading it and knowing you are a God fearing person.Merry CHRISTmas to you and your loved one.
“For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? “Matthew 16:26 (NKJ)
Best Christmas related article I’ve read in years! Very though-provoking and well researched.
Perry,
I agree with much, though not all of what you say. I am not by most standards a religious person but feel the church does more good than harm. I lack the ability to have the kind of faith that being truly religious requires. I didn’t realize this for many years until watching “Contact”, the movie adaptation of Carl Sagan’s book starring Jodie Foster. At the end of the movie, with no evidence to back her up and doctored evidence to disprove her story, she still believed she had traveled to a distant place. I could understand her faith in that situation and it hit me like a slap on the cheek that this is the same faith the religious have about God and Jesus. I envy those that have it but don’t beleive I ever will.
As for science and technology, equality, philosophy, human nature and incentives and how they have shaped our world and how they might continue to do so you will enjoy reading any of James Dale Davidson’s three books he wrote with Sir William Reese Mogg. Last time I looked they were all available through Amazon. He concurs with gunpowder and the printing press as two of the most important inventions but also includes the stirrup and the microchip. And provides the only rational explanation I’ve heard for why Jews and Arabs don’t eat pork as well as many other such apparently arcane but fundamentally important bits of info. More so than any one else I’ve read he manages to tie together apparently disparate events or beliefs into a “Mega-Political” view of the world.
Some brief examples – how the stirrup was important in helping to transition the world out of the the dark ages and into the middle ages and feudalism, how gunpwder was important in then moving us from the middle ages and city-states to the modern world of nation-states. And how the micro-chip was instrumental in tearing down the iron curtain and ending Communist Russia and how it will likely in our children or grand children’s day end the welfare state and bring an end to the Nation-State we all take for granted and what that will mean.
Your interest in these areas was unknown to me and I believe you will find his writings and musings to be historically very well grounded and thought provoking.
Ty
Tim:
Quoting Tim:
You’re contradicting yourself. If all we can know for certain is our own existence, then by your own admission *everything* else that is knowable is also subjective. So how is subjective belief in a God any different from subjective belief in the Big Bang, etc…
Additionally, because something like a mathematical postulate seems rational as you have argued, then it must be rational:
Quoting Tim:
How can you believe this while also believing the only foundational and provable truth is self existence? If that is the case, you cannot reasonably argue that it does not take faith to believe in mathematical laws, since those laws MUST be dependent on the first truth: I exist. Subjectivity cuts both ways.
Aside from arguments on the nature of truth, there is much more to Christianity and a belief in a creator God than emotional or tradition. The examples you provided of Greek/Roman gods, island volcano worshipers, etc., all fail a simple litmus test: they all fail to fit seamlessly into the historical record. Literally no one (not even atheists) argue that Jesus did not exist. The historical record supports it. The Bible’s account is accurate, and while you can certainly find seeming errors in Bible itself, Jesus was in fact born in Bethlehem some 2,000 years ago.
Without getting into a massive discussion of the veracity of scripture, let me give you some of my ‘subjective’ life history. I have been a Christian since I was 16 (I am 26 now) and in that time I have seen many things that defy explanation. I have seen healings (I was healed of Migraine Headaches last year, something that has plagued me since puberty. It’s been over a year w/o one and they used to come 1-2 times a month) that were profoundly moving. I’ve seen dozens of people healed from things as diverse as heart arrhythmia to cancer. I’ve watched God pour out his love in real time, and seen it bring even those hardened against God to their knees in joy over having been healed.
Honestly, the biggest reason IMHO that the church struggles with an unbelieving world is that we have turned away from Jesus’ commandment: “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.” Matthew 10:8
It is much harder to argue that God doesn’t exist when you are face to face with one of His miracles. If you want to see one, take a look at this video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMNLgJwYnu8
This is not something that just happens. It is the goodness of God breaking into the lives of those who need to know Him. I know him in that way, and I can assure you that He is real, He is good, and that He wants desperately to be in relationship with you and everyone else on the Earth.
Set aside your doubt for just one second and ask yourself this question: If the only knowable truth is self existence, why is it that all cultures share a belief in God, and even generally agree as to what is moral? The concept of what C.S. Lewis referred to as the Tau is universal. There is no culture where murder, rape, or child abuse is smiled upon. These preeminent moral principles came from somewhere, and it certainly wasn’t from the heart of man.
Nathan:
Yes, everything is ultimately subjective, but some things are more subjective than others. We accept the fact of the universe and the input from our senses because it’s only game in town. But that doesn’t mean we have to accept everything in the game as factual.
You misunderstand my point about mathematical truth. Mathematical truth is different from physical reality. Mathematical truth is independent of god or man — it simply is. God cannot make 1 + 1 = 3 in the set of rational numbers. But debating about mathematics is rather pointless.
While I’m not one of them, there are PLENTY of historians that debate whether Jesus existed. I happen to think he probably did, but you are very mistaken if you think this is something no one argues. But the fact that “Jesus is in the historical record” proves nothing. First of all, the greek gods *are* in the historical record — it’s just in a different section we call “mythology” while the bible is in a section we call “religion”.
If historicity is your baseline, then surely you’ll agree that Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, existed in history. He also claimed personal miracles and claimed to be a prophet of God. Literally millions of people believe in his Godliness alongside Jesus just as fervently as you believe in Jesus without Smith (assuming you’re not a Mormon). And Joseph Smith is a lot better documented than Jesus. So why haven’t all Christians become Mormon Christians?
As for faith healing, there’s a famous question about that. And I ask this respectfully, in the spirit of a genuine question that I believe leads to truth: why does God choose to never heal amputees? He apparently will heal vision, deafness, cancer, and every internal ailment under the sun… but never grows a new arm or leg? In other words, why does God only heal things that are difficult to measure? Why doesn’t he heal things that never heal by themselves?
And the reason all cultures usually have certain laws against violence is because generally people want to live their lives without violence. It really doesn’t take god for a group of people to form a government to control the bad guys.
As an atheist, I certainly don’t go around raping or murdering people. Would you really go on a murderous rampage or start raping women if you didn’t have religious fear to control your impulses? I would certainly think not. So why would you assume everyone else would do that without religion?
But I don’t want to turn Perry’s blog into a big debate on religion. At the end of the day, it’s all about finding whatever helps us function the best in life. Religion works for you, and lack of religion works for me. The only thing that would make me happier is if people would keep their religion as a private relationship between themselves and their god, and didn’t interject it into politics and education…
But I will give the last word to anyone else who wants it, and will bow out at this point. Apologies to Perry for all this!
Hi Perry,
I find your analysis quite impressive, tracing everything to Galatians to Paul and Jesus Christ.
My only contributions is that the concept of “all men being created equal” has its deep roots in ancient Egypt whose ideas and concepts became the foundation of the Bible itself. In fact there is evidence that Moses and Jesus themselves had access to the wisdom of the teachings in Ancient Egypt. That was the result of my research titled “Jesus Christ: The Missing Years & the Mysteries”.
Perry,
your cosmicfingerprints site is great. If you havent already done so you should read:
Earths Forbidden Secrets by Maxwell Igan
You’ll find it here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8960667/Earths-Forbidden-Secrets-by-Maxwell-Igan-
Dear Perry<
Now I know why your advise has always been a MUST for ME!..I have not enough accollades for the wisdom you espouse in your letters,…
If you write a book of your life story I will be the first to read it in order to learn “FROM WHERE your TALENTS were SEEDED!! You would make an excellent PREACHER, since your writings are full of your INNER SOUL’S PASSION!!!
In closing I will offer one of my POEMS, regarding SECULAR RELIGION….and would love your reply as to your position on my poetic offering, taken from my Book of Poetry titled” A POETRY BUFFET” (in soul food array):
THE RELIGION OF “HUMANITY”
If I had my druthers I’d like to see
One Religion for all Humanity
Then everyone would be Sister and Brothers
No need to ompare One Faith with Another
No separate places in which to Pray
All related to ONE GOD in the same HUMAN WAY…
For in this Plantet’s reality
Regardless of RACE, COLOR OR CREED
We all play the parts we were given at Birth
To the best of our ABILITY
Each with our own soul’s Special Needs
Would come together and PRAY
And open our HEARTS to a GREAT NEW DAY
In the RELIGION OF HUMANITY !!!!!
===============================
Thak you for your soul bearing email….
Keep ‘em coming….
Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year from Sylvia xox
Very poignant words both from you and all those who have left their comments.
It leaves me wondering why there are still so many people who want to create chaos in the name of religion, or for other self-seeking reasons.
Perry,
There’s no doubt that Dawkins’ and Hitchens’ books are tracts for the atheist belief system. You are right. However, I wasn’t steered in the direction of atheism by them. (The only reason I knew that one Dawkins quote is because I saw him debating Bill O’Reilly on TV.)
I became an atheist more or less organically. My parents made me go to church when I was younger, and each Sunday, I left the pews with more questions than answers. Who was God, really? Why did he instruct us to do all the things (many of them puzzling and some downright reprehensible) that he does? Furthermore, who were these people standing in front of the church claiming to speak for him? Who among those claiming to know God’s will today has ever spoken to God?
Questions like these persisted until my best friend and I decided that religion was little more than a power-grab. Thousands of years ago, someone needed a way to keep the masses in line. So what better way to do that than to insist that an all-powerful being was taking note of their every move and would punish them in hell if they deviated from “God’s will” – which just so happened to coincide with what would benefit the ruling elite.
Ayn Rand also opened my eyes to the many ways in which religious teachings belittled mankind. Before we even draw breath, we bear guilt for an “Original Sin.” When we express joy at our achievements, we are reminded that “pride goeth before the fall.” Hell, earlier this year, I was out for a run when a traveling evangelist passed me one of those “You Need Jesus” cards. It’s advice for people who are confused or unsure of how to live their lives? I quote:
“Simply read the Bible and obey what it says.”
I still have that card tucked away in a drawer somewhere.
So anyway, along came Ayn Rand into my life with a very different idea of life, man, and morality. Where Christianity preached humility and sacrifice, Rand wrote “the purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live.” Her fiction characters (such as my personal favorite, Hank Rearden in the epic novel “Atlas Shrugged”), symbolized wit, boldness, individualism, and the willingness to question anything that did not square with the evidence of their five senses. This appealed (and appeals) to me much more than the meek and humble ideal man preached by religious doctrines. And again, it seems that the main reason those doctrines portray man in that way is to condition them to take orders from those claiming to speak to God.
All of these thoughts combined with my readings about evolution made a strong case for atheism in my mind.
Anyway, end of rant. Hope I haven’t been too offensive to anybody!
Perry,
Just as an aside: I’ve read that you are a big-time Rush/Neil Peart fan. You might be interested to know that Peart was greatly influenced by Ayn Rand and her philosophy can be heard in some of Rush’s greatest lyrics.
“A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
“The stars aren’t aligned,
Or the gods are malign…”
Blame is better to give than receive.
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that’s clear
I will choose freewill!”
One more thing: I will definitely check out CosmicFigerprints.com and the Victory of Reason. It’s actually more fun sometimes to read things that oppose your point of view; more challenging that way.
Perry,
I have a general idea where this is all going. All things happen for good. Note: ALL THINGS. When I talk to people about anything my main comment is: All ideas are on the table. Some will be used now. Some will be used when the time is right. We are created “equal” in our rights. But, we are also created “unequal” in our strengths and abilities to learn and impart to others what each of us is incapable of figuring out for ourselves.
All people are welcome in my life until they destroy the trust that I extend to them.
Life is so good. People can be so wonderful.
Positive thinking is a big part of the solution but it takes a big part of every day to train our mind how to deal positively with every situation.
Our Creator, our Guiding Light, has a Plan and a Purpose. We will not be left desolate no matter what is to come.
Sincerely,
Glen
Perry,
Thanks for letting those of us who haven’t met you in person get to know you a little bit better.
All the best for a great 2009!
Steve
I agree fully that most scientific and technological discoveries are a direct result of the belief that the world was created by a logical mind. Random accidents would leave no way of systematically figuring out howthings work.
Even the miracles in the Bible are, I believe, logical extensions of that mind, though I may be incapable of understanding them. If the Bible is truly God’s word, as I believe, all genuine scientific developements should align with it’s statements, and at this point, i am unaware of any which are proveable which do not.
Like the Gurus you speak of, Many religious leaders make statements which most people never verify. The same is true of many so called scientific proclamations. To earn the truth, one must not simply accept anothers ideas but be like the Bereans in Acts 17:12. “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they recieved the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
To accept the claims of any one without checking them out opens the door to all kinds of falsehood.
Thanks for your article.
Don
Well Perry, you do a good job of bridging science and religion, with an intelligent treatise.
Heck, I don’t have to read the 7 lies of organized religion, I already get it.
I horrify folks when I say most religion is actually superstition, a story based on fears, and of helping the humble and the feeble deal with fear issues they can’t comprehend.
I pray every day and believe in God, but when I do go to church it is more to enjoy community spirituality than to follow the tenets as esposued by the demagogue on the alter.
And horror of horrors, I went on a Christian Dating site when I was single, and those folks are quacks. Blind devotion is utterly ignorant and cloying and the ultimate victimhood.
The bigger picture is You, Perry P. Marshall, being at the point of your career where you can take these detours to speak about religion, and not worried if it affects the 50% of customers who may not agree.
So I guess this freedom to prosthletyze is the new frontier of technology, a Web 2.0 blurring the distinctions that made America unique, and allowing a robotic fool to enter the White house on January 20th
Very interesting article.
I can relate to this on multiple levels:
1. Jesus is a genious marketer:
Who else has created a worldwide bestseller
– more than thousand years before the enabling
technology in form of the printing press
was even invented,
– without writing it down himself
but motivating others to write down what
he said and did.
He knew how to present his message
in such a compelling way that it
spreads virally and that it can actually
be understood by most people.
Somewhere I have read that Jesus
spent some time in estern Asia
and learned a lot of spiritual
truths and capabilities there.
He knew how to present what he
knew a way which was understandable
in the cultures which existed
in western Asia and Europe at that time.
So, I think that reading the bible,
besides its spiritual value,
may also be very helpful in improving
ones copywriting skills.
Ever wondered why many of the
most successfull entrepreneurs
are true believers?
This may be one explanation.
(The other explanations are
spiritual and beyond the scope
of this forum post.)
–> would be an interesting
project to analyze the bible
from a copywriter’s perspective.
2. Jesus’ messages being radical and scandalous:
This is really a recipe for enabling change
because you will get noticed with radical and
scandalous messages.
And people will understand you.
If you talk in a “politically correct” way,
you’ll be boring and actually you will not
communicate any information at all.
Guess why our politial elite wants
us to talk in this way.
His claiming to be the son of god
is IMHO the first step in teaching us
that we are all children of god.
(which is even more radical and scandalous
because it means that we are really
all equal and that we all have the
potential and the power for creating
equally huge positive effects in this
world as he did.)
Plus, “child of god” is a metapher for
something which we don’t have better
words for, in our human languages.
If taken too literally this has created
some confusions but it is still one of
the best way we have for describing this,
so sticking with this metapher is useful.
(Eastern spiritually discribes the
same concept with the words “we are all one”
which is understandable for people in
eastern asia but hard to grasp for
people in western culture.)
3. Institutions vs individual responsibility:
Now I can relate to this on a personal
level:
I left the religious institution exactly
because of what their representatives
said and did ( I don’t remember the exact
trigger but I never felt comfortable with
them anyways.)
Then I went through a period of
atheism which was necessary to get
enough distance from this intermangled
mess of claimed spirituality
and institutionalism, to later
be able to have a less disturbed
view on spirituality.
Many years later, still being
atheistic or agnostic, I had a kind of
spiritual awakening which came from
inside me. (Details would be much
too long to describe here.)
I am now on a path of taking
complete individual responsibility
for my spiritual and psychological
development and for any other
development tasks which I have.
It’s not easy, but it works.
I don’t do it all alone.
(There is a difference between
loneliness and individual responsibility!)
E.g., I organize (and pay for) help
when I think it is the best way
to fulfil my responsibility.
And there is no institution whatsoever
involved, nor do I want to create
an institution. I think that
“spirituality” and “institution”
are two mutually exclusive concepts.
For me, Jesus is a spiritual master.
Not the only one, but the most
outstanding one.
However, I don’t look so much
at what masters did and do, either.
I rather look inside me and what
my intuition / voice of god
tells me.
But I take the words and deeds
of masters as inspiration when
my intuition tells me to do so…
Since this institution vs individual responsibility
thing interests me, I have just subscribed
to your coffeehousetheology course and I
am curious what you have to say there.
These are the most important thoughts
which I have to your post. I have many
more thoughts to these kinds of topic
such as I think that both evolution
and creationism are right,
similarly to the wave-particle duality,
so the fights between these two camps
are really useless and both camps
show a lack of understanding and knowledge
especially in their attacs and arguments
which are directed at the other camp,
so they primarily invalidate their
own message by their unqualified attacs
towards the other camp.
But I have to keep this post within
some length and I have lots of work for my
business to do, so I finish it here.
Merry Christmas to you all,
Chris
When I was growing up we said Merry Christmas & Happy New Year and our friends from other religious persuasions responded with their greeting. There was a mutual respect for each others beliefs that seems to be missing today. There is great joy to be had by celebrating the right for everyone to have their own personal beliefs. This being offended nonsense is just an attack cloaked in victimhood. Righteous indignation is the shield behind which all scoundrels hide.
Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas.
I cannot believe what our nation has come to, that we cannot even say Merry Christmas. So I’m saying it!
I posted it on my blog as well.
Dear Perry,
My first post to your blog. I have been ingesting your auto-responder messages for over a year.
I can’t believe I read every post in this blog; but I did.
There is little I can add to the many brilliant comments made here except to echo a few points.
As Larryn Willa pointed out; it is great your convictions allow you to boldly proclaim your spiritual views. Especially so in a global mixing pot that contains far more than the usual Jews, Catholics, and Protestants. Bravo!
No doubt the world is growing smaller and I do know and communicate with international acquaintances more than some of my immediate neighbors. None of us can perfectly see the future, so what this means is left to speculation and conjecture.
I do not like being labeled religious, because I have a disdain for religion. However everyone needs to wear their assigned label; so when you talk about the Bible or God you must be put into that category. I am very thankful that Christ was born into this world. Since it is reasonably easy to show this birth was in September via culture, astronomy, history, and scripture, I do not embrace the “Christmas”spirit as many do. I like to say Happy Holidays because that is my wish for everyone with their families. International business relies on the same calendar and most are invigorated by the thought of a new year.
Nearly 4 decades ago, my Heavenly Father made His love for me plainly known to me; largely because of the hunger for truth in my heart. Interestingly, this event was far removed from any cross, altar, or steeple.
Making the man of body and soul, Jesus, the same as God has caused Christianity to be mocked by many more than just the agnostics and ‘atheists’. Granted a handful of Bible verses may cause some confusion about his identity, but when the book is allowed to speak for itself; there are way more verses that clearly identify him as the son of God.
So Perry, thank you for your holiday post. From the number of comments, it is obvious that you have quite a large audience. To them, I also say thank you for your thought-filled comments of conviction.
I find comfort in knowing Perry’s inner man better because of this blog post.
As one that is proud to call Jesus Christ my brother, I wish you all the very best New Year yet.
High Regards,
Tom Doiron
Atlanta
Perry,
May we all have freedom of religion and a peaceful life so we can seek our own paths.
Happy New Year,
Betty Fellows
http://www.bettyfellows.com
Tremendous article! Thank you for candor. My desire to honor our LORD with my life led me to internet marketing. I’m learning this new skill set to further the Kingdom. I was saved 24 years ago and our LORD called my wife and I into the ministry 23 yrs ago. We have served as missionaries on the Border of Mexico. My motive is to challenge and equip others to be better and bigger givers to the advance the Kingdom of God. I was introduced to you by other marketers and account this as an answer to prayer. Would to God that He allow us to meet and or talk some more to brainstorm. Without the LORD JESUS CHRIST there wouldn’t be a Merry CHRISTmas! Thank you and I look forward to many more conversations.
Faith in CHRIST JESUS
Kelle Hein
How sad.
Such overwhelming evidence for the extent of child abuse in American families.
I refer of course to the heinous abuse of prepubescent indoctrination — a crippling distortion that most will never have the strength of intellect to escape from.
Hi Perry
Children of Muslims tend to become Muslims. Children of Protestants tend to grow up as Protestants, children of Catholics become Catholics, children of Hindus become Hindus and the list continues.
The obvious conclusion is that choice of religeon is not a rational choice and it is not a ‘Road to Damascus’ enlightenment.
It is the result of brain washing.
This absence of rational thought does bestow a enormous advantage on ‘believers’ – that of moral superiority. In its mildest form the believer is a able to pity the non-believer as someone whose life is blighted and has no sense of right or wrong.
In its more extreme forms this moral superiority is used to justify wars ‘In the name of God’.
No thanks. As a once devout Christian I decided that society will be better when people use their brains rather than their prejudices.
Merry Christmas. Thank you for your original thought provoking articles. And the opportunity to reply.
Tim:
Quoting Tim:
“This absence of rational thought does bestow a enormous advantage on ‘believers’ – that of moral superiority.”
This argument is problematic for multiple reasons.
First, you assume that anyone of religious faith it incapable of rational thought. I think Perry is a perfect example that this is not the case. Unlike his very rational and very concrete arguments, which I notice you have not engaged in any substantive form, your arguments read like talking points for an atheist world view, and are based on conjecture and your own presuppositions; the very things that you seem vehemently opposed to in anyone who believes in God.
For example, the presupposition that religious choice is not a rational decision simply because the majority of those who believe in God believe in the God of their parents. How then do you explain those who choose God despite NOT growing up with a belief in him? Or those that choose to believe in a God that in fact isolates them from their entire community and can even lead to their death? (such as a Muslim converting to Christianity). While there could be other things at play in any conversion to a religion, to say that those who believe in God are ‘irrational’ is as petty as if one said all those who do not believe in God are ‘irrational.’
You also assume that because someone shares the same belief as their parents that this implies indoctrination, and that any parent who believes in God, is in fact both irrational and incorrect in their belief.
Would you apply this same argument to republican/democratic children of similarly persuaded parents? (or any social/political/religious persuasion) At what point does teaching your child what you also believe become ‘brainwashing’? Should parents only teach what is unquestionably provable (mathematics seems to be the only item available for that list since all other sciences both hard and soft are based in part on subjective truths) and leave their children to adopt any structure of thinking that suits them? How can one justify teaching a moral paradigm of any variety at all since each could be discounted as ‘brainwashing’ when using your criteria?
I realize that your actual argument is about the mutually exclusive nature of Muslim vs Hindu vs Christian, etc., however you should be careful how your frame your arguments. Writing off an entire sub-section of the world’s population as ‘irrational’ because they don’t agree with your world view is pretty offensive to those of us who both consider ourselves rational, and who also believe in God.
Hello Perry! Again I find myself feeling that I have done the right thing by trying this ‘Internet’ thing and proving to myself that I CAN do it. I had a feeling that you were the right guy to give my money to and listen to and learn from. Thank you.
(You were not easy to find – that’s for sure!)
Few have the courage to say some of what you did, and I applaud you.
Dear Tim,
i took freedom to call you *Dear*being we are here gathered in a natural Human need to *understand* and *to be understood*
Which language did you appropriate since was born?Russian,Chinese,Serbian or English,your native one.
It was a matter of nature to start speaking English/your language/,the language your parent have spoken.
That way,you have inherited some Religion Convictions,have you?Of course again from your parent.
There was no brain washing in any way-nobody lectured me religion themes,as i believe to be a case with others as well.
As an adult person now, i have freedom to read,study and love other religions,i am familiar with India,Muslim,Buddhism,Jewish and more.I am Christian-Orthodox ,but sharing in Catholic celebration of Christmas,it make me very happy as you can assure yourself by reading my thoughts here.
By glorifying all people’s faith i become a witness that every man appears to be my brother,friend,beloved for our common desire,feelings,pains,aspirations,interest ,and because of impossibility to solve all problems we keep us together in community and fostering our faith and believing in perfect life.
Thank you
Love for all people in the world
ps;for atheist one:what our world would like without joy,happiness and love joined in one person?
Whether belief in God or not is considered rational or irrational misses something each has in common.
There is no evidence for the existence of God.
There is no evidence for the non-existence of God.
Believing either is a matter faith and non-faith.
Faith in the existence of God would also seem to imply a lack of faith in the natural order – that undirected cause and effect can, in enough time, result in our multifaceted universe.
Faith that God doesn’t exist would also seem to imply a lack of faith in the non-material, or spiritual realm. A belief that if we can’t see it and measure it, it doesn’t exist.
For me, God is not needed to explain our universe and adds nothing to the quest of determining its origins or evolution. Yet I also know that there are things in this world that we can’t see or measure or explain with our current knowledge base. So I leave room for all possibilities.
It would be ideal if both sides could be a bit less certain about there position and admit that their faith, whichever side of the question they are on, does not and cannot equal TRUTH, just BELIEF and explore why some believe one way and some the other.
Ty
Hi Perry,
Entering your blog space for the first time (thanks for the invite by the way), I felt I was in my advanced anthropology discourses.
While I am a true believer in God and a huge admirer of technological advancement, I have reservations about how the concept “equality” is interpreted and applied from everyday routine to men/women relationship to global warming. The definition alludes to language arbitrariness when in reality it is not conceptually bound. The boundaries of equality are imploded in human experience, sexuality and passion, and leadership predilection. We are too focused on group labels we forget what it is to be human.
Happy New Year, Perry!
Jesucita
Perry,
This is THE most thrilling and invigorating post I have read in a long time. Not since I was actively involved in a little rebel Christian forum years ago called Greasespot Cafe have I felt the urge to post anything in a forum or elsewhere. I totally agree that Christ’s name is the first thing on the lips of many when the strongest emotions emerge.
This is from a book called “One God & One Lord”:
“It is no accident that the name “Jesus Christ” springs spontaneously from the lips of all kinds of people, from the pious priest to the construction worker who has just dropped a cinder block on his foot. Even when Jesus Christ is rejected as an object of faith, he is chosen as an object of derision.” http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=236
There is a spiritual battle raging around that name.
Regarding the whole faith versus reason arguments that inevitably come up in any discussion like this, I have one comment to add. People are getting distracted from the real issue: Take a risk and think, really think about this. Even Christians I know don’t really think long or hard about what the significance or implications of this one simple idea. Nor did the first Christians ie. the disciples of Christ himself hold much hope or faith in this at first. But everyone including people here and all down through the ages are being asked to consider this: Did Christ in fact really get up from the absolute state of being dead. Let me put it again in a manner that might make people think deeper as it tends to hit me more this way too. NOT ONE PERSON IN HISTORY, you name it: Demosthenes, Nero, Julius Caesar, Christopher Columbus, Galileo, Cleopatra, Sir Isaac Newton, Joan of Arc, Cromwell, Edgar Allan Poe, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, Bismarck, Alexander Graham Bell, General Grant, Abraham Lincoln, P.T.Barnum, Woodrow Wilson, Mussolini, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Joseph Stalin, Lenin, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Mahatma Gandhi, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Charles Lindbergh, Eleanor Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Jawaharlal Nehru, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Cecil B. DeMille, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie Dr. Albert Schweitzer, Louis Armstrong, Diana, Princess of Wales, Martin Luther King Jr., John Kennedy, Malcolm X, James Marshall (Jimi) Hendrix, John Adam Belushi, Pope John Paul II, and I know I’m beating this to death but trying to prove a point that NOT ONE PERSON YOU CAN THINK OF AND NAME FROM HISTORY IS ALIVE. The letters and DOCUMENTS of the Bible TESTIFY (AND testify better than ANY other ancient documents) that Christ not only really died but also that he is NOW ALIVE. That’s my best shot. I don’t know how to express it any stronger other than to say that again and ask anyone reading this to repeat that last sentence again to himself/herself as many times as it takes to sink in. And in anticipation of the inevitable question everyone has, that is regarding the veracity of the Bible, I DARE anyone to counter the argument that the Bible is the most reliable HISTORICAL DOCUMENT EVER WRITTEN. It cannot be done.
Perry, thanks for your emails and great articles like the above. Again I have to say that yours is the one of the only emails I enjoy reading. Not only that but I read all the way through the comments on this one too. So much for the last two hours.
Thanks again.
Brad
Enjoyed your conversation deeply and reposted it on my blog to share with my readers. Thanks for diving deeper than skin deep. It takes gutsy self assurance that ruffled feathers will not weaken your stance behind that which you believe is worth being spoken. Applause..
http://netrageouz.biz/merry-christmas-and-the-dance-of-equality-technology-and-spirituality/
Perry,
It is a good thing for me to read your Christmas post.As an 65 years old man I always ask Jesus Christ to help me – as a newcomer in internet bisnis – to understand the materials about internet-bisnis and to run it to get enough income.And with enough difficulties – because English is not my mother tounge – I try to understand your hints/instructions in your emails.
Merry Christmas.
(Patris L.Sera)
Hi Perry,
Thank you for the nice article about Christmas, science and religion. I wish you merry Christmas and a happy prosperous New Year.
I have done a lot of research and I have been constantly looking around on the Internet for solutions of making money in the right way. I studied many different methods for several years and I do find your advice exceptionally good and I consider you as one of the most credible and trustworthy sources out there. I do appreciate your sharing of the knowledge and enlightening people like me and many of my friends.
I agree that the invention of the printing press changed the way information and knowledge was shared and it gave way to the radical change that empowered the masses to pursue knowledge that kept evolving since then.
In my opinion, today we are in an era of radical chance where the Internet became the major player or today’s ‘printing press’ as you mentioned. I think the leaders of many companies who understand the change and listen to the word of the times and dare to make adjustments will thrive, the rest of them most likely fail.
I wrote an article urging small business owners to redirect their advertising budget towards the Internet and use it on the smart way. I would appreciate your comment on it.
http://thepowerofmyetus.com/index.php?page=news&topic=1&item=249&lang=en&sid=
Perry,
Two quick thoughts in reading your blog and thanks for publishing it.
1. I’ve often also thought that people taking Christ’s name in vain is a back-handed declaration of his divinity. I observe, like you, that people don’t swear at Buddha, at least not that I am aware of… would be a good cross cultural study.
2. I liked the expose on equality and the passage in Galations, but wonder if the description of equality there gets deeper and perhaps more accurate if you think of it as an expression of a lack of heirarchy. Something the whole church, body-life, model in Eph 4 and I Cor 12, gets rolling with – which would be quite different than how we all operate inside or outside of Church.
We apply heirarchies to everything, even the 80/20 rule is a statement of heirarchy. I’m fascinated with how technology might support that kind of functioning. In certain ways it has made the world flatter and that means in a way, less heirarchial, or at least made access less of a heirachy driven experience.
I wonder how technology might be used to support the revealing and knowing process (of body life) that usually requires close proximity, if the Christian church got motivated to pursue more of the equality and lack of heirarchy talked about in Galations.
Rodney
Perry, I really enjoyed this aritcle, and getting to know you better. I am a Christian also. I admire you for your convictions and the courage to stand up for what you believe. It’s refreshing to read such a logical presentation of history. I was reading a post by a woman over twice your age. She had the uneducated belief that all Christians are self-righteous and the cause of so much contention; that we just need “peace on earth, good will toward men”. The beautiful reality is that Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace, the Son of God, the Creator of all things. As you said, “One in whom there is no male or female, no Jew nor Greek, no slave nor free.” I believe that, because we are all God’s children, He loves each of us equally — no matter our religion or race. But he does not love our sins. He wants us to have joy, and that comes from trying to be like Him. I believe that God’s work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of His children (us). It’s just like a parent wanting their children to follow the rules, because they know that it will bring them happiness. For the same reason, our Father in Heaven wants us to follow His commandments because He knows that is the way we will find joy, to become like Him, and live with Him again. The problem is that we all sin, and no unclean person can live with God. That is why Christ is important. Being the Son of God, He was able to pay for our sins, to make up the difference, so that we could live with God again. So, this is why Christians revere Christ above all the other prophets and teachers. Not because we deem them as unimportant, but because Jesus Christ is the one God, the Father, chose to redeem the world.
Perry, Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Vedran
Greetings again . A fine collection of posts . A n excellent example
of how we can AGREE to DISAGREE , in a civil fashion . My view is
that is what my ancestors Spiritualities , were intended to achieve .
If my ancestors , had followed their Spiritualities differently , I would
not have been born . I owe my very existence , to Jesus’s influence
on what my ancestors did . So in many ways , most all Christians
owe their lives , to Jesus .
The same also applies , to other dominant Spiritualities . If their
ancestors had done things differently , they would not have been
born .
Does this , offer an insight , to how seriously we should take our
individual Spiritualities .
An earlier post , Brad@8:53 declared : I DARE anyone to counter the argument the TEXT is the most reliable HISTORICAL DOCUMENT
EVER WRITTEN . It can not be done .
If a person learns to read rocks , the geological timescale , they
open a TIMEMACHINE to walk with Creation, and watch the slow
bumpy but steady , development of all Life on this beautiful
Planet Earth . Look at Mother Earth herself . The writing of the
True Creator . Not some Book that people “REVEALED ” to be true .
In the last hours of 2008AD , solve the puzzle ,and work together
to feed the people . One species , one history , one future .
Follow Jesus’s teaching , Love thy neighbor . Thow shalt not kill .
Is this a reasonable response to a dare , about written HISTORICAL
and what can not be done ?
Wars have been fought , throughout history , with the Military people
claiming , that it is a Religious War , and the Military is just doing
their job . The Religious people claim that it is a Military War for
land ( money ) or power , and Religion is there to help the poor
and sick . So Wars are unresolvable , till one side becomes the
victor . When those Thermo nuclear missiles are launched , who
will win ?
We are about to destroy our own Mother and children , bickering
about who our Father really is . Armageddon awaits , for your
free ride . What if your ride , does not work ?
What if 144 thousand , does not turn out right ? What about all
the innocents ? Every living thing awaits , to solve the puzzle
about our history , and show our ancestors and children proud .
For Peace and Prosperity for the kids . Sincerely Ron .
Always enjoy your thoughts…. even though I am not at this time an internet marketer…. I find many lessons have cross applications.
Someone sent me “Discernment in the Age of the Internet” … and I was hooked.
I am writing today, to observe how people take whatever they choose from a piece like yours and “leap off in that direction …. amazing … Humans.
Thank you for a mostly accurate and thoroughly thought provoking article…
Christmas (with no fear) to You!!!
RP
Sylvia,
I wish I had time to respond to everyone’s post, but I wanted to say I appreciated your poem (not everyone has the courage to put their art out for public display!) and you’re right about preaching. I’m a pastor’s kid.
Blessings to you,
Perry
Thank you God, for Jesus, for our blessings in this world and for the promise of Heaven.
God bless you Perry, for your love.
It’s great to love Christ and give testimony of your path. The problem in discussions of religion in this country is when certain people try to “own” God, and defend Him as if He is under attack. I have more faith in Him than that.
One correction, Paul was not the first to advocate social equality. In fact, the Republic of Rome’s unprecedented success owed its growth and cohesion through the specific granting of equal rights of citizenship to landowning males. The idea was originated by pagans. Interesting I think. Something of our modern age was in the air at that time in history.
Christ is humanity’s savior who brought a new way of thinking to the world. If we bring peace to the planet, we will have done the will of Jesus.
Adding to my post, I believe Jesus’s peaceful principles were foundational and necessary for our modern society to exist. Rome fell to brutality through its Games, and it took 12 centuries of Dark Ages to rebuild human consciousness. The Enlightenment was the re-igniting of the individual mind.
So everyone who believes in liberal democracy with minority and civil rights is an inheritor of Christ’s revolutionary change to human experience.
The world isn’t really divided into “Christians” and the rest of the world. The morals Christ preaches are universal now, in our day and age. I don’t know many people who don’t agree that we should care for the less fortunate and be nicer to one another. That is Christ’s word resonating through humanity.
It’s a new time. Evangelicals that came before, the missionaries, did the work of spreading the Word. NOW it is about role-modeling the behavior Christ instructed, to show yourself as His follower and that His Word is real and genuine.
Hi Perry,
I enjoyed your post although I’m not religious myself. It was balanced and non-preaching and made some excelent points, which if you look at some of the replies above seems almost impossible for a Christian to carry off.
The thing that annoys me, and it appears other non believers in a supreme being, is the way Christians state as a fact that there IS a god, and anybody who disagrees is wrong. This despite there never having been a single shred of physical evidence in the history of mankind.
We’re all entitled to our beliefs but mine is that although religion has it’s place in teaching children right from wrong, otherwise it is more responsible for the ills in the world than any other single thing.
The pros and cons of the topic will go back and forth. Then one day the last of the human species will come to an end and all the remaining species (if any) will rejoice in HIS NAME for correcting HIS ONE AND ONLY MISTAKE.
The earth will continue to rotate and revolve around the sun and the infinite universe will go on without noticing the tiny blip of humanity.
Strange that human society and the world at large has gone on considering the billions of creatures who don’t say Jesus Christ except a percentage of the human species and these too have to be TRAINED to do so.
If they were picked up at their birth and placed in Japan, they would say whatever they were trained to, maybe Buddha. At birth all they say is Waa or something similar.
More people now believe in Jesus Christ than 2000 years ago. An even larger number do not even know about him than those who did not know about him 2000 years ago.
A high number of Christians migrated from the region where Christianity was dominant to escape the misery to a non Christian continent which had riches and very little resistance to pillage and plunder.
Mostly discarded from their Christian mother country as being criminals, a lot of discarded Christians were sent to a wilderness in the southern hemisphere where they proceeded to pillage and plunder the local inhabitants to establish themselves.
Today both these regions evangelize (market) Christianity like no other.
All organized religions have a somewhat similar background. The muslims have historically destroyed all non muslim cultures which they could at that point in time. The hindus have created a caste system which renders their own co religionists to live in the most inhuman of conditions.
All are nothing but the scavengers and predators between HIM and MAN using the names of books or prophets or animist beliefs to exploit, brainwash and desctory the very base of human decency under the guise of being the torch bearers of the same.
Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Dalai Lama, Krishna, Gita, Bible, Koran are tools of destruction even as they contain references to love.
They bring out the worst in human society as most even don’t understand what they mean. So they are told by the very miniscule few who claim to be experts in their interpretation. These wield great power and use it ruthlessly for their ends.
All creatures just want to live their lives as given to them by HIM but they are not let alone to be.
Ravi,
At some point in time you will take your last physical breathe here on Earth. Next you will come fullface with your future or your lack thereof.
Like your heart muscle, your physical brain will also be dead.
How will you think about all this stuff then?
Questions for the people out there who think that when our body, including our heart and brain of course, dies, that’s the end…
How did we come into being in the first place please? How did the sperm and the egg become a “person”? How did we take our first breath? How is it that we, as humans, can think about ourselves thinking? And another: Since we are each a mass of energy molecules (for want of the proper scientific term) moving and being, what holds us together in the shape we are? And with all the new discoveries about the brain (The brain that changes itself by Norman Doidge) HOW does all this happen in our brain?
Jenni
Hi Jenny,
Respectfully, some of your questions have answers, and some don’t (e.g., we are held together through chemical bonds, which is described by a field of physics called quantum electrodynamics).
But what you’re really asking is, “if science has all the answers, then why can’t it answer [xxx] question.”
The problem with that is that science doesn’t claim to have all the answers. Only religion claims to have absolute answers. Science is only a formal method for finding and testing answers.
Your argument is commonly called the “God of the Gaps” argument. Any gap in human knowledge, any open questions, or any sort of “gotcha!” question is seen as proof of God.
The truth is that human beings will always have open questions. A long time ago there were a lot of things we used to ascribe to God that we would think are silly now, because our knowledge of the world has expanded so much.
For example, people thought God punished people by blocking out the sun. Think of how powerful that proof was! Who else but God could possibly blacken the sun!? Of course, now we know it’s the moon blocking the sun causing an eclipse, and it happens on a regular schedule. No direct action by God is necessary to explain it, any more than God makes us cast shadows on ants.
My point is that asking “Gotcha” questions doesn’t provide any proof of God. It only proves we have open questions — and we have fewer all the time. (and it certainly doesn’t prove the Christian God — Zeus is just as capable of filling the role of a power figure, if you need one).
The “God of the Gaps” has a long and interesting history, actually. The term was coined by an evangelical Christian in the 19th century who was dismayed by Christians who openly mocked science, which he saw as mocking God’s work (which it is). We could really use someone like that today!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps
Tim
P.S. I tried really hard to answer your questions respectfully, and if I didn’t succeed, it wasn’t my intent.
Thanks “other” Tim. And yes, you were respectful, thank you.
To Tom Doiron @ 5:30 pm
Tom, MAN gives too much importance to his own existence with respect to GOD, assuming that GOD is obsessed about MAN above everything else in this universe. For an all knowing, omnipresent GOD this cannot be the case.
The above is what comes across from those interpreting any book, belief (deemed important)across all religions.
This then leads to hate, the very opposite of what the message is supposed to be as Stakeholders will usually interpret it to achieve their own predefined goals. These goals maybe political, non-political, purely religious as in evangelising their version.
Perry
Regardless of my views on this specific topic, I think you are a doing great work in spreading the message about good marketing. This giving is what embodies the true interpretation of teachings in Christianity and other religions which is mostly missed.
Best Wishes
Ravi
Tim,
The phrase ‘god of the gaps’ has become a retort that means “I’m sorry, but no question science is currently unable to answer is permitted to be seen as evidence for God.”
I fully appreciate the motivation behind this. If you are employed as a scientist, your job is to not throw up your hands and say ‘goddidit’ every time you can’t explain something. Science can only explore material explanations of things. Since we do not know the limits of science, the scientist is obligated to assume a material explanation exists.
On the other hand, science is very limited in what it can explain. Most importantly it cannot explain itself. Why is the world rational? Why are there scientific laws in the first place? Why is there order in the universe?
Outside of science itself is philosophy and theology. This is why Kurt Goedel’s incompleteness theorem is so central. It says, essentially, “Anything you can draw a circle around cannot explain itself.” It directly infers that outside the universe there is an uncaused cause that you cannot draw a circle around. Sounds a lot like God to me.
Back to ‘god of the gaps’: My observation is that every answer science produces comes with three more questions. People often say that the history of science is a progression of rational explanations for what used to be considered miracles. I agree.
But science never gets rid of the miracles. They just get pushed back further in time – and with every step they get bigger. The miracle used to be that it rained this afternoon. Now the miracle is that an entire universe started expanding from a single point 13.8 billion years ago and eventually produced things as complex and amazing as German philosophers.
Nah – science sure hasn’t made the miracles go away.
Another thing that concerns me is those who label theories “scientific” just because they’re materialistic. The best example of this is in the origin of life field. If science is systematic and testable then one is hard pressed to name a single theory for the origin of life that qualifies as science at all.
I’ve got a dozen esoteric textbooks on this topic and very little in their pages is anything more than fairy tales clothed in scientific-sounding language. Hubert Yockey, who is a thoroughly irreligous man, pointed out that from a scientific standpoint the origin of life is categorically un-knowable simply because the laws of the genetic code cannot be derived from the laws of physics. He is absolutely correct, but he’s been largely ignored.
5 years ago I was dragged kicking and screaming into the intelligent design / evolution debate. I struggled to find which way was up until I started studying DNA. DNA is a digital communication system, and as author of an Ethernet book I suddenly had a clear framework for understanding it.
It has a physical layer, an application layer, error checking and correction mechanisms and data redundancy. And a very specific data structure. Just like computer networks.
I recognized that reproduction of any life form is impossible without having all these things in place FIRST. The concept had to exist in the abstract before they were physically implemented in reality.
That, my friend, is the definition of design: An idea exists before implementation.
There was a period of time where I almost was persuaded to become an atheist. But I’m a rational person and for me any worldview had to be able to explain three things:
1.Where did the big bang come from?
2.Where did the information in DNA come from?
3.Do moral absolutes exist, and why?
Let me explain #3. For example, we all agree that it is wrong to throw a hand grenade into a room where children are playing – and that this is not merely a matter of personal preference or social convention. Killing innocent children is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. So… WHY is this wrong?
In 15 years of exploring questions like this in great detail I have never met an atheist who was able to provide a scientific or even rational-sounding answer to any of these three questions.
As a Christian I believe that:
1.When Genesis 1:1 says “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” – this 3500 year old statement describes the Big Bang perfectly.
2.DNA is a communication protocol designed by a fabulous mind
3.It’s absolutely wrong to kill children because they were made in the image of God. Who will judge us all for how we’ve lived our lives.
All of these views are logical, rational, and to me, personally satisfying.
Here’s the irony:
Atheism was tempting because it appeared to provide relief from essentially theological questions, such as:
-Why is there evil and suffering in the world? (Because shit happens, Darwin and all that…)
-Do some people go to hell? (Of course not, hell is just a fairy tale)
But the reason I was forced to reject atheism was because it couldn’t answer the science questions!
How contrary this was to the popular stereotypes. I knew the idea that the earth is 6000 years old was absurd. (Though it was at least a testable hypothesis.)
But I realized the idea that a bunch of proteins spontaneously formed and just happened to produce a living, self-reproducing cell – purely by “happy chemical accident” in Richard Dawkins words – this was just anti-scientific nonsense. Not testable, not systematic, not reproducible in any lab.
The atheist fairy tales were more outlandish. They should have been provable – but they were not!
Ultimately I saw that the ingenious machinery of life, the very existence of the laws of physics, and the rationality of the universe, could have only one explanation: A rational God.
Perry Marshall
Perry,
I can appreciate all of your arguments. And it all boils down to the “God of the Gaps” argument.
Let’s go back to the eclipses. Let’s say we lived 4,000 years ago in the time of Moses. We know the sun goes dark every so often. I say to Moses,
“But Moses, there has to be some natural explanation for why the sun goes out every so often. I don’t think it proves anything about whether God exists.”
Moses replies, “What? Are you daft? How can there *possibly* be any explanation for the ENTIRE SUN going dark? Do you not feel the heat of the sun? Who would wield enough power to stop all that heat?”
Don’t you see that your DNA arguments are just a more sophisticated version of that? “Who would wield enough power to create such an artifact in nature?”
You are incorrect that DNA theories cannot be tested. As computers progress, someday we will be able to simulate millions of years of time and test the various theories of Abiogenesis (and yes, there are many), and see if those lead to DNA.
What we absolutely know is that evolution and natural selection happen, including creating new species (This has been observed multiple times contrary to popular belief, google for “observed instances of speciation”).
You admit that miracles continue to recede as our knowledge grows. Why is it so difficult to imagine that this process won’t continue? In other words, why is it so important for you to have answers *right now*, when history shows that the answers come in time? Why the impatience? Why is an answer of “I don’t know” so terrible, so unacceptable, to the point that you must cast faith in *something* to have an answer?
No, “I don’t know” is simply not proof of God.
When people ask, “If God created everything, who created God?” The typical answer is, “well, God has just always been.” Exactly how a complex, intelligent being can arise spontaneously is never really questioned. But if God has always been, why can’t whatever mechanisms that gave rise to the universe have “always been”? Occam’s Razor would tell us that a reality that’s always been is a better explanation than a reality that’s always been with a complex, intelligent being.
Anyway, I can give you a perfectly reasonable scenario for DNA, even granting your point (that I don’t agree with) that DNA is spectacularly unlikely.
Let’s say the Universe is cyclical. It explodes every so often and then comes crashing back down, and then explodes again. So we’re dealing with infinite time. With infinite time, even things that are very unlikely happen eventually. What if it took 100 trillion trillion trillion universe cycles for DNA to pop up, leading to intelligent life? How would we know?
This is why the Anthropic Principle is so powerful, which states (paraphrase) that the Universe is the way it is because we wouldn’t be around to perceive it if it wasn’t. We simply don’t know how much time without life passed before DNA and self-awareness sprung up. All we know is that we’re here.
So the “improbability” argument doesn’t really help you with God. It’s entirely possible the Earth rolled 1,000 sevens in row, and fortunately we didn’t have to perceive the time passing.
But I’m just speculating. I actually think in a couple of hundred years we’ll have computers that can simulate the Earth to the point that we will have definitive models for how you get from C-H-O-N to DNA.
I would like to know right now how it happened, but I’m patient. “I don’t know” is a perfectly reasonable and acceptable answer to me. And once you’re able to accept “I don’t know” as an answer, religion doesn’t really offer much.
Dear Perry & Different Tim,
I promised myself that this will be my only interjection into the endless discussion concerning the existance or non-existance of God.
Spirit is outside the realm of the five senses. In other words, it is super-natural. God built a bridge between the two realms, but He only reveals it to those that hunger to find it with a pure motive.
Therefore science will never “see” God because He will be forever beyond its reach. Spiritual things can be ascertained, but they can not be analyzed.
I have to compliment most everyone that has participated in this mile long discussion. The reason is that most have been mature and civil with a highly volatile subject matter.
For me the five senses will never prove the existance of God, nor will true science ever disprove His existance. But for those who want to know that they know, God can be closer than their own breathe if they allow Him.
Perry,
Hey, what d’ya know! Speak of the Devil.
Just a follow-up on the DNA discussion — this fascinating article sprung before my eyes this morning:
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/090111-creating-life.html
One of the theories of how we got to DNA is that DNA came from RNA, which is a *much* simpler molecule. Well, some scientists synthesized RNA enzymes that *replicate* and *evolve*.
This is profound.
Chemical replication is obviously a necessary precurser to life. What’s fascinating about this experiment is that the molecule in question has only 140 nucleotides. Here’s an article with slightly more detail:
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2009/January/09010901.asp
Note this is starting with a soup of chemicals! What I found incredible from the latter article is this quote:
“The system, created by Gerald Joyce and Tracey Lincoln at the Scripps research institute in La Jolla, California, involves a cross-replicating pair of ribozymes (RNA enzymes), each about 70 nucleotides long, which catalyse each other’s synthesis. So the ‘left’ ribozyme templates the synthesis of the ‘right’, which in turn templates the ‘left’ and so on, building each other via Watson-Crick base pairing.”
That sounds a lot like the precursors of DNA. We are well on the path to explaining DNA.
And by the way, this reminds me of a point I wanted to make yesterday, and that is to be beware of false complexity. Ever seen fractal patterns? They are incredibly complex patterns that are produced from very simple rules. Looking at them, you would think they must be astoundingly complex to produce, but they aren’t. There are a lot of instances in nature where things seem complex, but they are just built up from relatively simple rules.
Anyway, I thought the answer for DNA would take a few hundred years, I didn’t expect it to pop to my attention the next morning.
That’s the great thing about science. Patience is always rewarded.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim,
1) Joyce and Lincoln are to be congratulated. A lot of intelligence and deliberate design work were required to make this experiment achieve its desired result.
2) This doesn’t address the question “where did the information in DNA come from” or any aspect of the origin of the genetic code, because these chemicals contain no codes.
3) I talk about chaos and fractals and their contrast to codes and information very early in my talk at http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/proof
Perry
“It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would strongly be tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare.
All day long we are, in some degree, helping each other to one or other of these destinations.
It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics.
There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal.
Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations–these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit–immortal horrors or everlasting splendours. This does not mean that we are to be perpetually solemn.
We must play. But our merriment must be of the kind (and it is, in fact, the merriest kind) which exists between people who have, from the outset, taken each other seriously–no flippancy, no superiority, no presumption. And our charity must be real and costly love, with deep feeling for the sins in spite of which we love the sinners–no mere tolerance, or indulgence which parodies love as flippancy parodies merriment.
Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbor is the holiest object presented to your senses. If he is your Christian neighbour, he is holy in almost the same way, for in him also Christ vere latitat, the glorifier and the glorified, Glory Himself, is truly hidden.”
CS LEWIS “The Weight of Glory”