I had this Irish Catholic friend once, I told her this joke:
Q: What’s Irish amnesia?
A: When all you can remember is your grudges.
This did not elicit the chuckle that I expected.
She got MAD.
(I bet she still remembers me telling her that joke.)
Have you ever relished the comfort of nursing a grudge? Oooh, the sweet narcissistic self pity, slowly rolling it around in your mind, returning to it like your tongue goes to an empty space in your gum where a tooth used to be. Massaging that spot, tasting the blood…
Doesn’t it feel so good to imagine getting even? That delicious day when the person who hurt you is suddenly hanging from his fingernails begging for mercy, you see the fear in his eyes… the tables turn and you get to be god and decide his fate….
And the hatred slowly kills you from the inside.
(What person’s face appears in your mind as I describe this?)
I think there are two kinds of forgiveness situations:
1. The person who wronged you humbly apologizes. I don’t know about you but it’s not usually all that hard for me to forgive that person. I anticipate the reconciliation.
2. The person who wronged you does not apologize.
For me, that’s the one I fight with. It’s made more dicey by the fact that ultimately even God does not forgive an unrepentant sinner.
Many times I have thought, “If God doesn’t forgive them how come I have to?”
Which always brings me to Deuteronomy 32:35 where God says:
“Vengeance is mine; I will repay.
In due time their foot will slip;
their day of disaster is near
and their doom rushes upon them.”
We don’t hold the unrepentant in the same place as we hold those who ask for forgiveness. But we still extend grace, just as God does. He doesn’t hate them, he still loves. He hasn’t gotten even either, as the door still stands wide open for them to come to Him. So must it be with us.
2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
We get to choose not to take it upon ourselves. I don’t need that burden. God can carry this one.
Lay the burden down. It’s in His hands.
Perry Marshall
I had a very personal experience with this one! Came out on the other side and never wanted to go back! Now I ask daily for forgiveness for my transgressions. It’s only fair that if I ASK for forgiveness, that I GIVE forgiveness as well, so I forgive, forget, and move on with love in my heart!
Once upon a time, a wise sales manager was talking to me about dealing with “no’s” and he said “you never know…maybe someone ran over their cat this morning” and I’ve never forgotten that. It’s kept me from having road rage, checkout rage and helped me blow off all kinds of unkind deeds and gestures. Because it is SO true. It’s also helped humble me to go back to people and apologize when I’ve had a bad day and snapped at friends, co-workers, kids, husband, family.
I think the “cat” rule has a lot to do with that scripture. God knows WHY that person did what they did. We don’t.
Example: in HS, my son was dating a girl who lost her elementary aged brother to cancer. Her mom and dad totally lost their minds. Temporary insanity over the loss of their youngest child. They were hateful, mean and a lot of the things they said and did…didn’t make any sense. But, you know what, I wouldn’t have wanted to walk in their shoes. It helped me to relate by thinking of them like a hurt animal that instinctively growls or snaps or even bites the hand trying to help it. And I’m so grateful that God sees the big picture and still scoops me up in His arms when I’m hurt even if I’m still kicking and screaming.
Whoever wrote that passage in Deuteronomy must’ve been one sick bastard. It’s just an excuse to hold on to unfogiveness.
True forgiveness is to let ALL desire for vengeance go – including “divine” vengeance.
If anyone does something “wrong” and doesn’t apologize for it, it’s because they can’t see it and thus keep repeating the same pattern. They are as much a “victim” of their “wrong-doing” as the people they’ve “wronged”. They keep setting themselves up for their own downfall until they choose differently – God has nothing to do with it.
Au Contraire, Bernard. God will turn His head away from evildoers forever; justice will be meted out. The passage in Deuteronomy is a reason to let God take care of things, so we can forgive and move on.
I would add that should the evil person in question repent, God would accept that repentance. God’s justice would then be meted out another way. Paul is perhaps the shining example of that.
Dear Lord–It DOES Appear that You Guyz are MUCH Better Versed in the Old Testament & all those SOP’s of “The Ancient World”–IN SUCH DESPERATE NEED of CHANGE!…Than You Are IN THE ‘NEW DEAL’ of the New Testament !!
Regarding Your statement–Perry:
“God will turn His head away from evildoers forever”…
TRUE THAT: GOD WILL NEVER “CHANGE! ‘HIS’ MIND TO COME AROUND TO AGREEING WITH WHAT IS WRONG IN THE THINKING OF THOSE WHO…USE & THEN ABUSE/NEGLECT/DENY FELLOWSHIP WITH THEIR BROTHERS &/or SISTERS.
But…While…”God will turn His head away from evildoers forever”…GOD WILL NEVER TURN HIS HEART AWAY FROM THEM…
…”Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow. You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
-Matthew 5:42-48
ANYWHO–I’d never heard this one…about “Irish amnesia” before…and it’s a Good One !!
It reminds Me a bit of what one of My EX-Brothers-in-law…My Brother-IN&OUT-Law…(whose parents hailed from North Carolina) said about The South:
The Side That “WINS” A War–Forgives & Forgets.
The Side That ‘loses’ a War–NEVER FORGETS.
The Irish joke that I usually tell is…
Q: What’s a 7-course Irish dinner?
A: A boiled potato & a 6-pack.
Cheers.
The point I was attempting to make is that true forgiveness invloves a shift in perception – which includes feeling, belief, attitude and thinking. The mistake is persisting with the belief/perception that the person who is being “forgiven” an “unrepentant evil-doer” and will meet his “justice” at the hand of God. Holding on to that perception of the person is evidence that you haven’t really forgiven him/her. All you have done is reinforced your judgment. If you are having a hard time letting go the so-called “sin” committed against you then your best recourse is to ask for God’s forgiveness – for yourself – and ask to be his channel of forgiveness for the other person. When this is done with a pure sincere sense of willingness then miracles can and do occur.
Hi Bernard,
I think the point of the passage in Deuteronomy was not to state simply that if someone wrongs you then God will blast them out of existence with a bolt of lightning.
Rather, the way I see it is that you have no idea whether what they did was completely wrong, a simple mistake, or what the motives of their heart were at the time. Simply put, we cannot judge because we are flawed – God is and can be the only true judge, because he alone is perfect and sinless. “He who is without sin cast the first stone” Jesus said – a new testament reiteration of what was in Deuteronomy.
And from 1 Samuel 16 – “Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart”. Unfortunately for us fallible humans, this means someone else may act in a way that offends us but due to their motives being pure God may not see it as a sin… That one messes with me regularly, particularly in my relationships. Selah.
Ben.
Thoughtfully put Ben. I still think though that the author in Deuteronomy is one sick bastard to even think that God would do his bidding for him and make the unforgiven “sinner” suffer. He must’ve had a bitter & twisted concept of God.
Bernard, there’s a difference between justice and blind revenge. I believe I have reasons to say I know what that difference is. I take the view that there is a divine law in operation, I can only see part of it, but that the correct punishment for crimes and wrongdoing is dealt with by a power much greater and wiser than my own. One has to let go of anger, even if one must still support justice. Where someone is unrepentant – especially in the case of actual death – then justice must be pursued so that others do not die as well. That doesn’t need to entail personal hatred, even though, as Perry has said, it’s a very difficult balance to strike.
Richard, that refers to the point I’ve been making. Any form of “justice” that calls for punishment is basically the same as calling for revenge – thus true forgiveness precludes this sort of “justice”. I don’t meant that we shouldn’t lock up dangerous criminals for the safety of society – and themselves – but it it’s done with any purpose other than correction and healing then forgiveness hasn’t occurred. I think this is one of the problems with the penitentiary system both in the USA and NZ both of which share the highest incarceration per capita. If it really worked people would resolve their issues much sooner and once again become productive members of society. What stops this is the public and political call for vengeance and punishment.
Well said, Perry.
I would like to say that forgiveness is in truth something very selfish! Why do I say that? Because forgiving others their misdeeds means that you can live without having to bear grudges*, feelings of anger or disappointment. In short, your life is far, far nicer than it was without forgiveness.
(*I will add that it is my life’s task to learn NOT to bear grudges!!)
You are right when you say that you might miss the revels in imaginary “getting one back”, but aren’t there nicer things to do with your imagination? Things that are quite as much fun but postitive, bring happiness to others instead of unhappiness? Which would you ultimately prefer? This is not an intellectual discussion that I want to provoke. My aim is to live that, every day. That is quite different from an intellectual intent or argument – for love is to be done not to be thought about and made abstract.
Forgiveness has broader applications too: renmember Jesus’ words as he was on the cross “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do” – forgiving at that level will free you from all evil.
It might not free you from evil doers though! Just because you love all dogs does not mean that you will never be bitten by one! Of course there is then the vexed question – as mentioned above – of those who behave unjustly towards you and yet do not understand their doings. That is important for in this instance they will not be aware that they need to ask of your forgiveness! It is what some call “second level evil” and puts it apart from evil directly and consciously done to others.
Perry, thanks so much for sharing this. Many people are held being slowly eaten up inside by holding on to a grudge caused by an offense of another.
It seems to me that the ability to truly forgive someone is a work that the Spirit of God has to do within me, again by His grace. Especially when the offender does not offer an apology or the hurt goes really deep.
Regarding our forgiveness by God, as a Christian I believe that I was completely forgiven when I accepted Christ’s payment for my sin (past, present, and future) when He died on the cross.
I don’t think I need to ask Him to forgive my sins each time I commit them as I received that forgiveness once and forever when I accepted Him.
I do think it is critical to confess my sins when they occur and thank Him for the complete forgiveness He graciously gave me when I first accepted Him.
Throw another layer in the mix, family. For some strange reason, it is easier to hold a grudge against a family member than others.
Ultimately forgiveness is more important for the forgiver- the person who was wronged, than it is for the person who did the wrong.
When Jesus teaches the disciples how to pray in Matthew 6, he says in verse 12
“And forgive us our debts,as we also have forgiven our debtors.”
And for some reason we all like to stop at verse 13, but verse 14 & 15 clearly says
“For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
Verse 15 is one of those “wow… really? Well alright, if You say so.” verses for me that I need to constantly remind myself of when I feel like I’ve been wronged by others.
Thanks Perry for your comment. The point you’re making is so important. I don’t want to sound like I’m bragging but I’m very thankful insofar as bearing grudges is less of an issue as I get older (and I’m Irish).
I know someone who wronged me some time ago, but I don’t bear a grudge. Part of the reason is that I genuinely believe that if I did bear a grudge, the thing that was in her that did me wrong, would jump across into me and attempt to do her, and others, wrong. And that’s not something I want.
I woke up the other morning and noticed that I had some negative feelings towards some people. I stopped and thought: ‘No. That’s not what I want’. Shortly after that, the negativity left.
I think, spotting it in time and making the conscious decision to say ‘no’, is the key. If not, the consequences could be very unpleasant.
Thanks for this Perry. As a spiritual healer, I see more “diseases” caused by a person’s holding on to a grudge, or a feeling of hate. Deep hatred and the need for vengeance eat the insides out of a human body. It manifests in cancer, kidney disease, arthritis, and many other painful, chronic conditions. Forgiveness is hard work.
I never did meet the man, but my husband’s aged Ukrainian father used to say to him when someone hurt him, “Let God look take care of him”.
There is another aspect to forgiveness that is huge. That is forgiveness of your self. We often walk around for years with guilt for hurting someone else, or even ourselves. We deserve to be forgiven as well. Blessings to you!
I have to say that the article and almost every comment were excellent. Very thought provoking.
Hi! Perry and everybody here,
Thanks Perry for bringing this very important article and to everybody for your wonderful comments.I´ve got many experience with that in the pass very unpleasants and have to say that unforgiveness at the end of the day keep you captive and miserable but with God´s love we all can be free of that and look at others who wrong us as self victims who need love and help.
And as Gerard said spotting this negative feelings in time and making the conscious decision to say “no”
in time,is the key and that´s something very important,I´m doing it all the time and it works like
magic and if you can´t in the moment ask the Lord to
help you and He will.
Thanks and blessings to all!
Psalm 11: 5 “The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates. (Bible, NKJV)” The unrepentant wicked people should head that verse. God extends mercy and forgiveness for years, so people should take advantage of His mercy while they have time to do so.
Great Posting Perry, but I believe 1 shouldn’t forgive those who inflict long lasting pain on them. Better to curse such ‘tomentors’ & just see if even death shows mercy on them.
So how’s that working out for ya?
I hadn’t considered the curse and death strategy. Have you tried any split testing with that Swapnil?
No I haven’t, you can try it out if you like.
Remember the phrase “the sword of the Lord and Gideon?” We have soldiers, policemen, parents and others who protect.
“Forgiveness” in Christian circles today often means license to sin with no penalties. Sometimes God punishes by withdrawing His protection from those who do Not listen to His wisdom. Consider Proverbs 13: 20, “He who walks with wise men will be wise, But the companion of fools will be destroyed. (NKJV, Bible.)”
YES–IMPORTANT NOTE: “‘Forgiveness’ in Christian circles today often means license to sin with no penalties.”
I’ve seen THIS “In Play” at those “Christian circles” a.k.a. AA Meetings…where there are lo-key tho’ Definite messages that Encourage “Relapse”…because the Repeat Business of Re-Rehabbing Clients…while NOT Their #1 Source of Revenue…IS Their #’s: 2, 3 & Even 4 !!
Kenneth, I believe that when true forgiveness occurs there would be no “license to sin with no penalties”. Forgiveness, as I’ve mentioned before, necessitates a shift in perception. It releases the fearful, hateful, vengeful, and guilty emotions plus the accompanying thoughts & judgments. It shifts the perception of the act from “sin” to mistake. Mistakes call for correction – sin calls for punishment. When a person realizes that a mistake has been made they are free to correct it. Mistakes occur at the level of mind before manifesting at the behavioral level. Then the response would be one of understanding & compassion – not punishment.
Bernard- Trying to determine if “A Transgression” rises to the level of “Sin Deserving of Punishment”…or is merely a “mistake that calls for correction”…is a needlessly “sticky wicket”…
All Actions Have Consequences.
Natural Consequences are THE BEST “Teachers” Because…”Forces of Nature”–Such As Gravity–Operate With A Consistency AND A 24/7/365 Constancy–That Makes NO Allowances WHAT-SO-EVER For Your State or Status…IF The Queen of England Trips Up Badly Enough–And No One Is There To Catch Her–She WILL Fall.
Logical Consequences–
Consistently Applied–
To The Responsible Party(s)–
Are ManKind’s Closest Approximation To “GOD’S NATURE”
What I see as needing The MOST “Course Correction” in Our Systems is that–All Too Often–The Party Whose Action(s) or Inaction(s) RESULTED In Harm–Is NOT The Party To Suffer ANY Negative Consequences…
Au contraire…
In like manner to the AA example given above…ANOTHER Example is–Marriage Counselors–
Who often seem to think that Their Job is NOT to work to save a Marriage–but to negotiate the most Amicable Divorce possible…
…GET MORE BUSINESS In The Long Run From Their OWN Contributions To & Promotions of The “Good Divorce” Culture…such as we’ve cultivated here in Our Nation & Beyond.
Mary, I would suggest that it’s only a “stick wicket” to those whose minds are in confusion about the true nature of forgiveness.
Bernard- It’s a “sticky wicket” because NO Human Being has GOD’S EYES to know…All There IS To Know…About Another Person’s Internal “Hard Drive” & “Software” & “Downloads” That Are Behind The Bio/Physio/Socio Calculus That Becomes Manifest In Their Behavior(s).
FURTHERMORE–MOST of US…Don’t Even Know Our OWN SELVES Well Enough To Have More Than Superficial Awareness of Our “Motives”–AND–Even If We DO Know Our Motives–We Really Can’t “Think About THEM” When We’re Focused ON What We’re DOING–”In The Moment”…It’s Stuff We May or May NOT Reflect Upon…later…when We may or may NOT Understand Deeper Reasons for WHY We–Did What We Did–When We Did IT.
For Example: My Husband was a surgeon…tho’ disability has forced Him into early retirement. His disability is NOT “Unrelated” to THE FACT that–He Was OVERWORKED Throughout All of His Training Years & MOST of His Career–It’s What The Field DEMANDS of Its Practitioners. He told Me Many Times throughout His years of Surgical Practice that–If It Weren’t For Having To Support Me & Our 2 Daughters–He Would’ve Quit THIS Abusive Job LONG AGO. So–For 25+ years He–Did What He “Had To Do” To Financially Support His Family…AND THIS WORK–Kept Him Separated FROM His Family 12-20 Hours/Day–Almost EVERY Day…So That–When He Was SUDDENLY “Home” 24/7 In TERRIBLE Nerve Pain…He Felt Like A “Stranger In A Strange Land”–In The Very Place That He’d Given His Life & Health & Strength To Build & Maintain…and He behaved ‘badly’…for a while…until enough time…and love…and grace…had nurtured the regrowth & healing in His Body & Heart & Mind. It wasn’t pretty–AND IT WASN’T EASY…but Our Marriage got Thru IT.
Reread Your statements AND Mine–Bernard–and I think that You’ll see that–For The Most Part–We’re Saying The SAME THING…in different words & ways…
…With The Key Points of Difference Between US Being…
THAT–I Strongly Disagree With Your First Posting–#3 on June 29, 2011 @ 6:57 am–You stated that…In Your opinion…
“Whoever wrote that passage in Deuteronomy must’ve been one sick bastard. It’s just an excuse to hold on to unfogiveness.
True forgiveness is to let ALL desire for vengeance go – including “divine” vengeance.
If anyone does something “wrong” and doesn’t apologize for it, it’s because they can’t see it and thus keep repeating the same pattern. They are as much a “victim” of their “wrong-doing” as the people they’ve “wronged”. They keep setting themselves up for their own downfall until they choose differently – God has nothing to do with it.”
#1 I think the real problem here is with “semantics”…Instead of “Vengeance” let’s say…”Righteous Indignation Coupled With Logical Course-Correcting Consequences”…NOW–We Have Something That Fairly Accurately Describes What Jesus Did To The Money-Changers’ “Operations” At The Temple In Jerusalem… AND–IF Christ Took Such Actions With His Own Hands–THEN–It’s NOT “Sinful” For US To Do So–Too…AND…THIS MESSAGE IS SO IMPORTANT That It’s One of The Stories Found In ALL 4 Gospel Accounts: Mark 11:15–19 & 11:27–33, Matthew 21:12–17 & 21:23–27, Luke 19:45–48 & 20:1–8 and at John 2:13–16.
#2 NOTHING is “OutSide” of GOD–Your “Bottom Line” IS A FALSE & MisLeading Statement.
Other than that…Bernard…I agree with Your observations that regarding “Crime & Punishment”…”Error & Correction” WE MUST LOOK DEEPER Than The “Act” ITSELF & ALONE–NO WRONG Can or Will Ever TRULY Be “Righted” Until We Understand WHY “Thangs” WENT Wrong…And When We Know & UnderStand The WHOLE STORY–Then We Almost ALWAYS Find MUCH NEED To “Forgive” AND “Be Forgiven”–ON ALL SIDES & All Around.