The Marketing Guru Dog and Pony Show: Rant from a Frustrated Estudiante

Got this rant from Joe DiSorbo, from Singapore:

From: Joe DiSorbo

To: Perry Marshall


I find myself saying the same I was saying a year ago.

There are a bunch of tools and information out there and it looks like a jumbled mess. There is nobody actually selling results.

Let’s take your recent Renaissance Club news letter for instance. Let’s say I agree with you about Bullock and Livingston and I want to try their services. I can’t.

The best I can do is spend $1000 on more CDs and manuals so I can spend 41 hours trying to learn something Glenn is an expert at which I never will be. Let’s face it, Glenn is Glenn. It’s a waste of my time to try an recreate Glenn’s work (and time is the most important factor). It is like trying to copy Michaelangelo. I will never be able to replicate his work no matter how detailed his explanations. Glenn’s systems works for Glenn because Glenn has a lifetime of education and experience  behind it.

It’s much more effective for me to hire Glenn to do it for me. However, this is not cost effective because Glenn is most likely making too much money as a marketer ($2000 an hour or something) because all the huddled masses are buying tape sets and getting no where. This puts the cost of hiring him out of reach.

Here is an example


New York to Los Angeles

*My need is to get from NY to LA.

I see an on line advertisement in this regard and that leads me to visit a Ford dealer. They tell me I can have this great car that will take me
from NY to LA in 3 days or less, in style.

I say great, I’ll take one, how much are they?

Ford says “well, you can’t buy the car, but for $995 we will sell you this 41 hour CD set that teaches you everything you need to know to build your own car. If you need more guidance, then for $9,995 you can come to a seminar where a guy who actually built one will tell you  exactly how he did it. At the seminar you will learn everything including where to mine the iron ore used for parts, how to build a headlight, and all the other thing you need to get from New York to Los Angeles.

I say, ” but I just want to buy the car. I really don’t want to learn how to make the car.”

And they say, “Oh, you’re one of those, you want to do it the easy way. You’re one of those customer that wants US to do all the work. Isn’t it enough that we are telling you everything you absolutely need to know to build the car. You just don’t seem to get it. How ungrateful can you

I say, “I just want to get from NY to LA. That is what I want to buy. I  don’t want to buy the plans to build a car. I have no interest in building cars. My interest is in getting to NY.”

They say “OK, we will sell you an actual car, but the price is $1,000,000”.

I say “$1,000,000!, why does one car cost so much. This is a nice car but that is way too much”.

They say “Because the ROI in selling the information on how to build the car is so lucrative, it doesn’t make any sense for us to waste time actually building cars for people unless they pay us $1,000,000 a car. It is much easier to sell information because it doesn’t have any moving parts, it doesn’t break, has no warranty or guarantee, and customers keep buying it year after year.”

I say, “Oh, sounds like a good business. However, it looks like I’m taking the bus. By the way, I have some land off the coast of Florida I am trying to sell, are you interested?”

They say, “No, but we have a list of people that might be”.


*I also want to talk about the “art” factor. The “art” factor is the one thing that is never mentioned in Internet marketing. Internet marketers disguise the art factor as systemization. Everybody acts like marketing is a system that can be replicated with the push of a button. The real truth is that the difference between the winners and losers is the art factor.

Internet marketers do not address the art factor for obvious reasons, because you cannot replicate it. It is personal.

You can give me a Picasso paint by numbers set and I can complete it, but it isn’t going to sell at Sotheby’s for $20 million. The same is true for Internet marketing. I can read every book or listen to every tape set on copy writing, web site design, Taguchi, or Guinea Pigs, copy it to the letter, but it still isn’t going to make me a million dollars.

The thing that is going to make me a million dollars are the intangibles, the art factor.

The art factor *IS* Internet Marketing.

If you don’t have the skills or time to become an artist then the next option is to hire the very best artists. That is what I am trying to do but even that is very difficult. Unfortunately, unlike in Michaelangelo’s day, the artists are now very expensive and practically out of reach.

Frankly, the Internet marketing community is selling air, nobody is selling results.

I think there is way more money to be made in providing actual results to business owners than just selling air.

My challenge to you is this.

Show me a way that actually delivers measurable results to business owners and I will show you 5 times more money in your pocket than your making selling info products.

See you in Chicago.


To: Joe DiSorbo

From: Perry Marshall


First, there’s much truth to the ‘art factor’ idea and that’s why I talk about giftedness and personality so much.

Second, I would disagree with the perception that selling info products is more profitable than selling results. Actually Glenn is having the following problem with his survey product: It works, it’s color-by-numbers, there’s very little art in it, it’s step by step, systematic. If people
use it, it works. You don’t have to be Glenn to make it work, you only have to be methodical and detailed about following his formula. You do
have to follow the formula, and it’s involved.

The problem Glenn has is that his research product is hard to sell. It’s NOT air. Air is easy to sell. Real work is hard to sell. He and I have discussed on a number of occasions the fact that he’s selling this *in spite* of the fact that he makes more money just sitting in his cave and using it than he makes by selling it. In other words he’s so hard to hire because he can make more money selling his own thing than selling someone else’s thing. The reason he wants to sell his research system is because he likes to teach, he feels he has something to offer, and it gives him some notoriety in a community where some notoriety can bring you more good things.

The reason Jonathan Mizel is not in the guru business these days is that when you’re a guru everyone rips off your ideas and sells them for
cheap, and besides, he makes 5X as much money sitting in his cave selling non-info products to non-internet marketers. And that’s the God-honest truth. That’s what he’s doing now. And making a mint.

That said, you can realistically hire Glenn if there’s enough money in the deal for everyone involved. If I were you I would at least talk to him.
And you can get the art you’re looking for just by hiring a top copywriter. Top copywriters (even non-guru ones) are expensive simply because the magic they create is so valuable. Yes, copywriting is art. I don’t think that’s very much of a secret.

Oh, and one last thing about the Art Factor: The biggest thing that appears to be art factor but really is not is really knowing your market. Knowing what they want, need, crave, fantasize about, hope, fear, dread, worry about.

If you’ve been completely immersed in your market for a long time, you might know the answers to those questions. But the un-artistic, color-by-numbers way to find out those things is step by step market research. Not much of an art factor there. But it does work. And how it works!

For Part 2 of my answer to Joe DiSorbo’s rant, go on to “Fact vs. Fiction in the Guru Biz.”

Perry Marshall

P.S.: If your marketing doesn’t work, is it the Art Factor, or is it something else? Glenn Livingston’s method is my #1 resource for debugging marketing projects that “should” work but don’t. Glenn has assembled a series of highly informative, free interviews and documents about using market research to laser-target your online sales efforts.  Get the free interviews at

Archived Comments

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  • Mark says:

    You are the straight-shooting-est of the internet marketers. I’ve spam-filtered out everyone else. Posting a letter list this takes courage. My reply would have been a bit more caustic, but part 2 really finished the explanation so well that it left me no room to complain.

  • Gia Lactchman says:

    I agree with Joe Disorbo, about trying hard to carbon copy someone else’s product, idea and not seen the same results. I’m tired of trying, I really am. What’s left to do? I’m wondering. You are very good with what you do, and I know you’ve made a bundle, but little entrepreneurs like me, nothing, absolutely nothing! No matter what the product or ebook cost, I’ve never seen the profits. And it took me this long to read this email, because I’m loaded with emails, about 5000 of them actually, so I read them slowly to make sure I get some type of benefits, and so far nothing! No matter how very well I follow the instructions. I’m starting to believe they are all over sold out and outdated products.

  • Perry Marshall says:


    I looked at your website, and if the general gist of what I see there is indicative of what you’re doing, I can tell you exactly what the problem is.

    The problem is you’re selling “how to make money on the Internet” information, and that’s how you’re attempting to succeed online.

    There is a whole host of problems with that:

    1) If you do this the way you’ve probably been taught, it’s nothing but a glorified chain letter.

    2) You haven’t succeeded yourself, so you have no business teaching others how to succeed.

    3) This general ‘get rich on the Internet’ topic is one of the most competitive categories in e-commerce, period. Telling a regular guy off the street he can get rich on the Internet by showing other people how to get rich on the Internet is like telling your grandmother that she can go down to the local martial arts dojang, take on 3 black belts at one time and kick their ass.

    Fat chance. This particular niche is a game for razor sharp, A-level marketers. Not for entry level people.

    All that happens to entry level people is, one way or another their money ends up in the hands of razor sharp, A-level marketers and you have nothing to show for it. All kinds of razor sharp, A-level marketers take advantage of this fact without the slightest twinge of guilt.

    (Their rationalization for exploiting peoples’ ignorance is: “Well if I don’t take their money they’ll just waste it on some other equally stupid thing.” Well hey, it’s not like they’re exactly wrong about that…even piranhas have their rightful place in the food chain, right? Hey pal, I’m just saying, if you’re not a piranha, don’t swim with them. Find a pond that just has regular frogs and dragonflies and hang out there.)

    4) Carbon copying other peoples’ product is a doomed strategy, no matter what niche you’re in. Sure you might try to be the guy who makes El Cheapo knockoff products in China and sure, some people make a lot of money doing that, but the bottom line is: If you don’t have a USP (Unique Selling Proposition) then sooner or later you’re dead.

    My advice to you:

    Abandon this niche entirely. Stop selling “get rich” stuff. Stop selling “how to market stuff on the Internet” stuff. Do a thorough inventory of yourself and your knowledge and your skills.

    Let me give you an example of what I’m talking about.

    Find some OTHER niche (hey, there are only a MILLION other things you could sell on the Internet – yes, literally a million). Find some other product to sell. Find something that has NOTHING to do with making money on the Internet.

    Maybe you’re familiar with specialized motor parts or some sort of industrial equipment or maybe there’s some odd thing you collect, like pink flamingos or wrought iron furniture. Or you grow orchids or collect 16th century romance novels or movies from the 1930’s.

    Or maybe you can go to a trade show and find manufacturers in some market where most people are clueless about marketing, and build them an online presence. Work out some kind of profit sharing deal, or get them to put you on retainer. Sell that product.

    (That’s a real useful tip I just gave you there.)

    Or sell some kind of information about that topic. Like I said, do a thorough inventory of what you know and where you’ve been and go into a niche you’re intimately familiar with.

    My nephew Josh asked me advice about starting a home business and here’s what I told him:


    1. Don’t get into a pre-packaged business. There are LOTS of them out there. Network Marketing deals, Internet deals, etc. You should capitalize on your individuality.

    2. Doing something online…. boy I deal with that ALL THE TIME. Is is VERY competitive. An at-home online business is the white picket fence of the 21st century. Super great – if you can pull it off. Most common things are things like selling ebooks or selling things on ebay. If you do something like that you have to specialize in some particular niche.

    The people who do best at that 1) know their subject and their customers EXTREMELY well; and/or are 2) very in-tune and comfortable with the whole online scene and culture and websites and everything.

    The more nichy your topic, the more you can rely on #1 instead of #2.

    3. Anything you know how to do – like plumbing or handyman stuff or swimming pools or repair hang-gliders… or knowing how to cook or take care of kids or organize a house… as soon as you have a way of advertising and getting customers, you have a business. Might not necessarily be an “at home” business, but it’s a business.

    Oh, and by the way if you do a business like handyman stuff or repair or remodeling, all you have to do is show up on time, answer the phone, tell people the truth, finish projects on-time and on-budget, and you’ll kick everybody else’s ass in town. In a business like that, half the secret to success is literally “showing up.” You’ll get lots of referrals, customers will love you, and you’ll make a good living. Even in an economy that sucks.

    4. If you know what you want to do, then I can advise you about promoting it. Let’s take plumbing for example… to advertise yourself as a plumber you need all the certifications and everything. Doesn’t
    keep you from doing it when people need it and getting paid for it, if you’re a ‘handyman’ instead of a plumber.

    5. Any business that is going to work for you is based on the gifts and skills that you mostly already have. So it’s actually kind of sitting under your nose all along. You just need to start taking inventory. Asking other people what they see you being good at. Listing your skills and looking at all the things you’ve done etc.

    Here’s something I sent to a personal friend of mine, Anita, last summer when she asked me pretty much the same question:


    OK, here’s some things I’d like you to do… Good stuff to do over your morning coffee or whatever.

    BTW what we’re ultimately looking for here is intimate knowledge of various microcosms in the world, where you may have sell-able skills.

    BUT….. right now I don’t want you to think in terms of selling or jobs or all that while you’re doing this. That would be a limiting way to think of it right now.That can fall out of it later. For now, just
    crank out the list o’ stuff.

    -List every magazine you’ve ever subscribed to for any length of time

    -Same for newsletters & various publications that you consistently enjoyed reading

    -Every job or industry you worked in long enough to become really familiar – even if you’ve been out of it for a long time

    -Every “group” that you’ve been a member of. Examples could be – golf, Presbyterian church, girl scouts, cancer survivors support group, bowling league, pottery making class, David Hasselhoff Fan
    Club, horsemanship, stamp collecting, backgammon, owning rental property, investing, chess club, etc.

    -Every major schooling / training / educational experience you’ve had (like travel to Africa or airplane mechanic school or nursing degree)

    -Every hobby or fascination you’ve had

    -5 topics you know a lot about, that most people don’t know you know a lot about

    -Specific products, services or experiences that you have great familiarity with (like a washing machine that broke down so much, pretty soon you knew how to fix it better than the repairman)

    -Topics you own more than 5 books on

    -A story of 2 major personal victories from each of the following: childhood; teen years; early adult; recent adult. Tell what happened and what made you feel GOOD about it.

    Why don’t you chunk on that for awhile and let me know what you come up with. I bet somewhere buried in that list is a marketplace that would pay money for your skills.

    From that you can form a USP, determine something unique to sell, have a ready-made understanding of the customers who buy that sort of thing, and have a MUCH easier go of it.

    If you in fact do have a solid grasp of basic direct marketing principles, then I DARE you to do this homework assignment – and I mean, do *everything* I just said to do right here – I dare you to do that and not have some kind of successful business that you are really proud of, 1 year from today.

    Perry Marshall

    P.S.: If some endeavor you’re pursuing has failed and failed and failed and is making you feel utterly sick on the inside, then STOP. Cut the ball and chain. It’s like that Stevie Nicks song “Stop dragging my heart around.” Don’t waste another minute on it, until you’ve found a completely and totally different way to approach it. Or just drop it entirely and find something else.

    • Scott Murphy says:

      Perry, this was some of the best advice I have ever read. I heard of you from a friend (Tom Venuto.)Tried some affiliate work with his product(s), but the main issue was even though I believed-believe in his product(s), they aren’t mine. My website has no commercialization to speak of right and I have a mailing list of 15 people developed by personal time spent getting to know people (as much as you can online:)My lack of selling is ok for now,while I develop my USP, which happens to be how to make very difficult lifestyle transformations-e.g. overcoming additions (alcoholism, I am a recovering alcoholic sober now for 4 years) This takes time though. To be able to confidently and competently point others towards making changes in some of the most challenging areas of their lives, takes a “been there done that and a been there changed that and this is how I did it” which can only come from personal experience. I heard someone say that a wise goal was to work towards being significant rather than just successful. Perhaps these terms are not mutually exclusive. I am learning, this takes work and dedication. Creating value that merits a ROI takes more than just a “blueprint for successful online marketing”. If it sounds to good to be true and requires no heartfelt gut level work, then what will it really net for anyone involved? Thanks again for your work. I appreciate you!

      Scott Murphy

      • Perry says:


        You have the advantage of dealing with a subject that people are VERY emotional about. Crack the code, explain how you crack the code, and the story is a fantastic USP. USP is all about results.


    • walter daniels says:

      Perry, I absolutely agee that copyweriting is an “art.” Anyone can learn enough to tell whether or not it is being doen well, for them, but not the art.
      I halfway agree that copycat following a system is _not_ the answer. A good teacher helps the student to see how to “do it their way,” by applying the rules. The problem is that each person learns differently. The “teachers” personality and style, may not work for all people. Finding the “teacher/system” that fits *you,* is the answer. Once you do that, it all comes together. Glenn is good, but his “style” won’t fit everyone. When they do match, the student sees how it goes together, and how they can make it work for them. My advice is, if it doesn’t fit, find one that does. When it does, the light bulb goes off, and you understand it. The feeling is great. :)
      In any case, understand the rules, and how to work them. Once you do that, you can use your localized knowledge (your business), to really succeed.

  • Steven Pam says:

    Wow, at last* a ‘guru’ who gives us STUFF WE CAN USE instead of impressive-sounding gobbledygook and rhetoric. Thanks a million, Perry.

    *I know, I know, you didn’t just appear all of a sudden… I’m one of those ‘lip service’ admirers who’s been on your list for, like, six years who has – so far – not spent a penny with you. Hang in there… the day may be getting closer :)>

  • Kayla Fay says:

    Very good advice. I’m still thankful you were the ‘guru’ I ran into early on; as a result, I was never the victim of those other guys. And, as a result of your Google Adwords guide and your coaching program, my business succeeded.

  • Warren says:

    Guy, you are awesome!!!

  • David Rothwell says:

    Perry is just *so* right.

    Think of some problem you had and solved in your life – just anything.

    If you had that problem, someone else probably does too, and if you can help them solve it – you may have a marketplace you can reach with the value you have to offer.

  • Joan says:

    I’ve been in the ‘business’ for 5 months trying desperately to find my niche. What an epiphany! I don’t think it was a coincidence that I stumbled upon your site one night in sheer desperation – I know it was Divine intervention. Thank you ever so much.

  • Patricia says:

    Perry, I save every email of yours (read them when I get a second), have more notes, highlights, folders, etc..then I think I ever had in school. I find your information SO valuable. I’m fairly new to this internet marketing world and I have already put so much time into it I will never nor do I plan on throwing in the towel. I WILL SUCCEED AND I KNOW I WILL, it will just take some time. I know this. However, in reading your reply to Gia regarding making money on the internet, I am a little nervous with my own endeveors. I got your name through the affiliate program I am doing with ECurrency Arbitrage with Paul Jenkins. The websites (such as Project Payday & Partner With Paul) are set up for me. But that is exactly what these types of websites deal with, is making money on the internet, and I’ve put some money in google ads with revelency & keywords being my number one priority. I have signed up for and looking into similiar websites to help me along. However, may I be in a market that it just so overly populated I will not make any money? Any good recommendations for affiliate marketers since we are limited to the websites already being created for us?
    As usual, any advice you could supply is like a goldmine to me, for you are truly one of the best! :)>
    And I personally thank you in helping us “newbies” and just wanting everybody to succeed no matter what!

    • Scott says:

      I am much like Patricia. Perry, I literally have both electronic and hard copies of your emails sorted by topic! And I refer to them!!!

      You indirectly helped me discover a niche in local store marketing for restaurants and my site is consistently on Page 1 of Google for “local store marketing.”

      Thank you for helping understand how to find my niche.

      • Perry says:


  • Perry says:


    Real quick – there are lots of affiliate programs that have nothing to do with making money on the Internet. Go look at the self-q-and-a at – find your personal areas of expertise and then overlap them with affiliate programs. That will take you to some less traveled roads that are less competitive.

  • john says:

    Perry, You are awesome keep the great knowledge coming my way.


  • Martin Hogg says:

    I think there are some ‘air sellers’ out there- in the UK there is one in particular
    But Perry and Glenn are the real deal I have been implementing Just one small
    Part of Glenns system for a month and have had great success. He seems genuine
    Too. The thing to remember is that buying an info product does not include it jumping
    Out of the computer and implementing itself! If only…

  • Anonymous says:

    Here’s the bottom line, if you’re not smart enough to have figured it out already:

    To make money on-line, you need 5-10 years to sustain any meaningful income. The barrier to entry is so low (everyone can play).

    In the meantime, make sure you have a spouse who makes 100k/yr to pay the bills and support you.

    There is still a traffic jam at 5PM every day and the commuting trains are still packed.

    Welcome to reality.

    • Perry says:


      [should I even reply to an anonymous blog post?]

      I respectfully disagree.

      I did my first Bobsled Run in Spring 2005 and right off the top of my head I can name three graduates of that course, barely hanging on at the time, who now run multi-million dollar companies. One is Jeff Hughes. He went from $15,000 per month loss to $16,000 per month profit in one year. Another is Ari Galper. He went from $5000 per month in sales to $25,000 per month in sales in five months and reached $100K per month in ten. Conrad Feagin went from $4,000 per month in sales to $100,000 per month sales in a little over a year.

      At least one of these guys is now hovering at the $10 million mark.

      Are these guys above average?


      Are there others who wiped out and are not around today?


      But I watched them and I know what they did. The relentlessly and remorselessly applied what they were taught. They get the credit for their own success. It did not take 5-10 years, it took a few months of really focused effort in a market that was already alive and kicking.

      AdWords Boot Camp is like a mini version of the Bobsled Run. It just focuses on AdWords. AdWords isn’t the whole picture but it’s a necessary part for many businesses. If you can affordably get qualified traffic to your site, you’ve won half the battle.

      Yes, the barrier is low, and yes, everyone can play. But since most people won’t put themselves under a mentor and most people only apply a tiny fraction of what they’ve been taught, the barrier isn’t as high as it appears. Most people never get more than about 10 feet out of the starting gate. Most people start on a good idea, then some email shows up and distracts them with some “shiny metal object” and they’re DOA. That’s why there’s still a traffic jam at 5pm every day and the commuting trains are still packed.

      Stay focused and you can get respectable, meaningful results in a few months time. Read the results of more students at

      Welcome to a different reality.

      Perry Marshall

  • Anonymous says:

    fair enough, but it’s still 1% success rate.

    in a post above, you said :

    “2) You haven’t succeeded yourself, so you have no business teaching others how to succeed.”

    then you go on to advise people focus in a niche market..

    Have YOU succeeded in a niche market?

    What you do is hardly niche.
    please clarify… Thank you.

    • Perry says:

      What I do is VERY niche. Google AdWords is a very distinct segment of the marketplace, as compared to SEO or email marketing or Yahoo Search Marketing or banner ads or whatever. And even though I talk about LOTS of things, AdWords is my chosen identity and branding.

      And yes if you’re not willing to accept the reality of a 1% success rate you should be doing something else. The same is true in EVERY profession, not just this one. Only a few make the cut.


      PS I will not approve any more “anonymous” posts from now on. You will need to use your real name

      • Pete says:

        We have to give Perry the credit here. Out of your school class of 100 students one will be very rich one day and one will be in a state of extreme poverty. The rest of the remaining 98% will be somewhere in between a state wealth to not so wealthy. But don’t despair! Second place might not be a bad position to be in. It is only the negative inclined who dwell at lower end of the income spectrum. If that is the case then you will fail at whatever you attempt to do.

  • Greg says:

    Hey Perry Spot On!

    I did what you said, I took my “Art” literally and put my expertise into an online business of teaching people who to draw caricatures.

    It worked!

    I make a few hundred dollars a month and anyone is welcome to do what I have done.

    Problem: No#1

    People are lazy and even if I said “hey here is my site, just copy it and do like I have done, most people would just (in fact 98% if I am correct) would not be bothered.

    Everyone is still looking for a “Genie in a Bottle” to rub and watch the magic.

    Sure it takes work and knowledge but as you say, we are all experts at something.

    My site is at the top of Google for “learn to draw caricatures” it took some time to get there but now I reap the benefits, so can other people.

    Everyone just do it.



  • Joe Kennedy says:

    I read and am still reading yet again the 80/20 principles that are taught by Perry and Bryan.

    I also bought their upsell on this subject also the book by Koch

    I then applied the principles and I have saved many thousands of euros on Adwords.

    Not only that.

    We sell learning materials for overcoming dyslexia and dyscalculia (inability to process numbers accurately)

    However, our best keywords by far – I mean 1000s are:

    ads in English: add
    adhs in English: adhd

    and very cheap: 7 cents a click in comparison to 30 – 40 cents for t’others.

    We were constantly trying to bend these seekers onto
    dyslexia and dyscalculia sales letters, because nearly all add, adhd suspects suffer from learning disabilities.

    Now, one of Glenn Livingston’s main points is that the few buy the most.

    So we gave the seekers what they wanted. Also emotionally

    FREE Audiovisuelle Training value 297 euros if they bought the dyslexia and dyscalculia materials and courses for 1128 euros

    In this 6 week test period we have sold 42 courses – at the end of the school year.

    It is stunning.

    We had even built a very big add, adhd website together with 7 top experts and with 5 suffering families – all of whose children are now leading happy or happier lives and are writing (very) good grades at good schools.

    And still after 3 years we were trying to bend them into our VARIOUS sales letters for learning disabilities.

    With our unique USP 2 grades better after 12 months in
    – reading
    – spelling
    – calculation

    with personal telephone support; I really do think we are on to somthing

  • Yudi says:


    Honestly, just the COMMENTS that you make in response to your posts are more valuable than most of the ‘gurus’ over-priced info products.

    I have gone through all the stages – newbie enthusiasm, sophomore jaded-ness, having the light bulb finally turn ‘on’ and now implementing what works on a larger scale.

    I can honestly say that at this point I can barely think of even a handful of other guys aside from you whose information I still trust and devour with utter devotion.

    I really appreciate all the content you put out and the incredibly practical information you share. I joined your Renaissance club last month after being a 6 month ‘list-squatter’ and the information is just fantastic.

    Thanks again.

  • Christian Robinson says:

    Hi, I have been interested in growing an internet business using my “art”…I am in the very early stages, but agree with a lot of what I have read on your site.
    Thank you for your interesting emails.

  • Kim Cooper says:

    Hi Perry,

    Nice article – I have a little advice I would like to share with Gia and would love a little advice from you too if you are up for it (-:

    So first …

    Gia – here is what I suggest …

    The easiest way to sell stuff on the internet is to forget about your ego. Think about the most embarrassing problem you ever had that you solved and write an ebook or record and audio where you speak truthfully about how you solved it.

    There will be tons of other people who have the same problem and they will trust you more than an expert if you have the humility to admit that you once had this problem too.

    The more embarrassing the better …

    Like with my husband and I … We used to have a very bad marriage and our fighting even became violent at times but after 10 years of suffering I solved this very difficult problem and have a truly great marriage now. So online my husband and I admit our embarrassing past and help people who are still in that situation.

    Our website at has supported our family for nearly 3 years now. We are not rich but we do OK even with 3 kids to feed.

    I hope that this and Perry’s great advice helps you make a go of an online career.

    So now this is where I would like your advice Perry …

    You are welcome to use my tip above (and if you like I will even make a little movie about it just for you that you can share with your list) but what I need to know is this …

    I give away more ebooks now that I sell because there are so many people out there who need our help but don’t even have a credit card. I have a great business but my customers are no wealthy and so our business does rely on volume and the expense of Google adwords is crippling. I am following Glenn’s free advice (that is all I can afford right now) and that is helping and we are constantly improving our system and ad copy but I would really appreciate it if you could tell me this …

    Can you think of anywhere we could get some free publicity? No one likes talking about domestic violence (unless it is celebrity BS) no matter how huge the problem is. We have hired professional PR people and done press releases and after 3 years have not had ONE article ever published about us.

    I get around three unsolicited testimonials a day and people love the help and advice we offer once they find us. We also have a list now of around 25 thousand subscribers.

    So tell me who do you think is out there that cares about this issue and will give us a bit of exposure? The papers only like writing about the deaths and they will not do anything about offering people hope or solutions.

    You can see some of our free stuff here to check out how sensible our approach is …

    I have asked about 10 gurus for their help over the years and none have ever even written back to me. Even one I make $500 a week in sales for as their affiliate!

    I am tempted to name names but I won’t (ha ha ha), but I challenge you Perry to please help us. Our work saves families and saves lives and I urgently need some ideas on how to get our advice out to a wider audience, not only for the sake of our income (and because I desperately need a holiday), but also because the people who need our help are in such urgent and desperate need and I cannot keep playing all day at beating the odds in the Google casino to find them.

    I look forward to your advice and thanks for listening (-:

    Yours Faithfully,

    KIm Cooper

  • Chris says:

    Thanks Perry your candor and wisdom are priceless. I am just starting in the on-line sales world and it is a bit overwhelming. Your excellent advice has made me rethink my current business (remodeling/homebuilding) I was thinking the grass is much greener on the other side and obvious mistake I am sure many make. I am going to pick up your adwords book to advertise my current business and start offering free advice on our site and maybe even sell some books or recommendations of products that have helped me. What Zig Ziggler said: help enough people get what they want and you can have everything you want. I pray God continues to richly bless you Perry, you are living Zig’s words. Thanks again.

  • Eddie Symonds says:

    I would like to weigh in o this too. To a certain extent I can appreciate & empathize with what he is saying. I am a small business owner that wears many hats on a day to day basis. I found you after getting taking to the cleaners be SEO guys & was fed up. Being an avid DIY guy I figured this can’t be all that difficult to at least match the results that I was trying to obtain. I honestly have employed a number of your processes over the past few years & the results have been phenomenal. I like him do not have the time to devote full time to marketing but who in our position does. I am in a business where we stock & sell actual items & that brings an entirely different group of responsibilities to the table over some of your typical customers that sell digital items. But that is not your fault it is the path we chose. This guy does have one thing going for him that is very obvious. He is a decent copywriter. His letter was put together very well & with as much effort put into his marketing as his complaint I think he could do really well. To date I have employed honestly probably 40% of what I have learned from you & netted excellent results. I pray for the day I can devote 50% of my time to perfecting my internet marketing but I know for now this is all I can give. In short(Since I rambled on here) Perry you do a great job & offer one of the best customer service experiences I have ever seen professionally or personally keep it up & keep encouraging us overworked entrepreneurs to devote our time & you will always be at the top of your game. To Joe I offer this I had the same issue not enough time to get this done but keep in mind that no single thing in your business will net you a better return today then investing in your own education of internet marketing. No matter what industry you are in the internet brings it to the table. Devote the time just a few days over the next month & really follow the guidelines & you will see the results. Best of luck to all involved.
    Just another guy in perry’s kool aid circle!! & man its good

    • Perry says:


      Thanks for your kind remarks and for sticking with things until they started happenin’. Great to have you on board.


  • Anant says:

    Hi folks,

    I started three years ago as an entrepreneur. I chose a seriously bad industry, now that i look back there was very little business logic. I did what i did back then for the challenge!!
    But it started building up on me, months and months of sheer torture, physical, emotional and financial.

    After three years of nothing yielding, i have tasted genuine success. We just made 4X ROI on my google ad spend. Btw my start up is not even two months old and i have barely set up all the systems in place. just three weeks ago i was losing money.

    Theres a man responsible for this Mr Perry Marshall. To be fair, there’s another man responsible for this, he is resolute, works hard, keeps searching and wants to make it the honest way, that guy is me, not to forget the immense family support and nurture.

    This to my mind looks like the start of a wonderful association. And perry you are my guru, boss. I am tremendously touched by your sheer generosity and will to share and contribute. I have had teachers like this in the past and i am blessed to have you as a teacher. Thanks a lot!

    • Perry says:

      Great story. Thanks for sharing!

  • Gemma Laming says:

    Ias you know by now, I have been around for a little while. I *am* learning, really!! It’s just that I don’t learn quick, okay? But this is to say thanks for all the brilliant work you do, and for sharing enough for folk like me to get a start. It is very much appreciated.
    Gem x

  • Adrian (Bold Internet) says:

    Fantastic. I really enjoyed reading Joe’s letter. So funny and so true.

    I just hope I don’t find out one day it was all some big set-up to lead in to a sale…

  • Dan Wilkinson – the story of the last 12 months. says:

    Hi Perry,

    I dont leave replies to threads very often but wanted to in this instance. Ive been receiving your emails for about 3 years now, and when you came to London last year to give a seminar i decided to become a planet perry member. A lot has happened in the last 11.5 months since we first met in london, and i thought i would share our story here with the people who actually get this far down the thread to read it. So here goes.

    I attended the London seminar with my wife Annaliese at a time when i was literally running out of money on a weekly basis, and where i was hoping that there would be enough business in the next couple of days to see me through to the weekend. We were taking advantage of a couple of niches within our market and had Adwords campaigns running already but we needed more business and more money to continue.

    The london seminar was great, we paid the extra to attend the swiss army knife session on the friday, which i was shocked when turning up because it we were greeted by this really nice guy called Perry, who shook my hand and gave us a name badge each and introduced us round the room to everyone already sitting at the table to include Bryan Todd. I was actually a little starstruck and this was far from what i was expecting. The following 2 days of the event we had numerous seminars conducted by Perry & Bryan, and also we had sessions held by Drayton Bird & David Rothwell. We really felt overloaded with information it was hard to see how we couldn’t make our first million within a week if we got everything implemented.

    London cost me close to £4000 (approx. $6000) when i finished paying the monthly instalments, hotel, train tickets etc, and was just about all of the money i had at the time however we also decided to sign up for the bobsled run & the 4 man intensive, as this made perfect sense.

    When we returned to work we instantly got caught up in the mundane running of our business and actually implemented very little (although applied some) of the teachings from the london seminar.

    Within 3 weeks our turnover had improved as we tried a few things, however cashflow had remained very tight, the market was slowing down and ROI started reducing – which meant that we started woking harder at our jobs and we really didn’t have enough time in the day to be going through our notes from the london seminar & this “perry stuff”. Because of this i pretty much decided that because i still had loads of marketing knowledge to implement, i did not need to do the bobsled run & intensive 4 man.

    Over the next 3-4 weeks the UK market started declining further as we head towards christmas, we had very little cash and i was sitting there one afternoon wondering what to do.
    Marketing needs money.
    We have no money.
    Things were looking pretty bad on the surface.

    Right then, as im sitting at my computer, with cashflow on the screen – the funniest/craziest thing happened – My phone rang with a US number on it. It was Mendy, a member of Perry’s team who was calling to ask if i still wanted to do the bobsled run & 4 man intensive. I simply said that i cannot afford to do it. Mendy accepted this and spoke to me further trying to understand my situation, why wouldn’t i want to take the bobsled run etc etc. The conversation ends with Mendy offering to book the bobsled with monthly instalments of about $1200 with the 4 man intensive to be booked at a later date. Whats interesting here is that the amount i had in the bank at that time was about exactly $1200, give or take a few (literal) £’s. This was by now 1st week of october & the fall bobsled run had started 2 weeks prior, however it was not a problem to join the next bobsled run, or even catch up if i wanted to.

    i cant really explain why, but i suddenly found myself impersonating a set of scales with my visa card in 1 hand, and a copy my bobsled run application form (from london) in the other. I considered that the small amount of money in the bank was all i had (again) and that if i give that to perry, i can be on the bobsled run within minutes. I also considered that if i dont, how far was that money going to get me anyway. Looking back i think it would have bought me about 3 days before i would be sitting in the same scenario thinking the same things except worse.

    So i signed up to bobsled run & 4 man intensive. Best Business decision i have ever made.

    That night i sat down with earphones, i watched the 1st webinar from the bobsled run. Let me just say that implementing what perry says you “Must complete as homework” in the 1st webinar, was all i needed to get the company back on track I made the decision to complete the homework before going onto the next webinar, and this alone helped us achieve the same turnover of our most successful month ever, 3 months in a row during the off peak time of year.

    When we started 2011 our business seemed to blossom quickly and we immediately started hitting our weekly targets without fail week on week, until we could not manage the workload, so we started hiring people (lessons learnt there) and pushing the company into a new direction.

    In April, myself & Annaliese flew out to Chicago (great couple of days however we could have chosen a better hotel) to attend the 4 man intensive at Perry’s house. This is where you are together with 3 other attendees and you each spend 1/2 a day going through your business. What is so good is that as you are explaining your company and what you would like to achieve, people will ask questions which when you answer them – you may learn a little more about yourself. The whole process for me saw the session steer away from the actual problems i started talking about as we unearthed some much deeper problems which needed diagnosing. Perry rounded each session off with a recap, and to ask if there is anything that we wanted elaborating a little more etc etc, but the session was pretty thorough.

    What we got out of the 4 man intensive was that we need to stop working 24/7, we needed to hire more people to manage our operations ($10 & $100 per hour stuff) so that we could concentrate on the $1000 per hour stuff. We also went into ways to hire good people, how to manage time, and how to expand our company from the small UK market to the european market & worldwide market.

    The 4 man intensive was 3.5 months ago. We have since been through a tough time in the sense that we have found it tough physically rather than financially. We have hired & fired several people because we run a fast paced ship. when a member down its very hard to get everything done – however we have our company going in about 7 different directions and our sales and since the 4 man intensive session we have literally doubled our turnover. We went from turning over £39k in April, to turning over £68k this month so far and we have a week left in august. We are going on holiday for 10 days next week to spain, our first family holiday in 5 years, and finally – money is becoming a little easier.

    The way i look at the current situation we are in is that i hope that this is the big turning point. We feel that we have merely scratched the surface and we have some pretty big plans for the last qtr of 2011, and even bigger ones for 2012.

    Thats the story of me & Annaliese for the last 12 months, we have worked hard and we feel its paying off but we also feel that there is so much ground to take. We have competitors folding all around us, the whole industry appears to be in hardship. We have sales reps and account managers turn up with looks on their faces like they have bad news for us, but all we see is opportunity. There are so many things that people are not doing. Even the industry’s biggest flyers.

    What i want to say about the teachings we have had from Perry Marshall over the last year is that he teaches on many levels. Firstly you learn the basic & intermediary knowledge of internet marketing. I recon this will form 80% of whats needed to even enter the internet profitably. This area is what made us comfortable online. Then there is the other side of what we already know, the “what happens if i try this against that” side of the table. We’ve been testing and tracking results from every angle within the business – not just in Adwords.

    Then there is the 3rd level.

    I said earlier in this post that last october i was staring at the screen of my laptop wondering what to do when Mendy called. Well now after London 2010, 2 bobsled runs, 4 man intensive, a couple of 1 on 1 phone calls with Perry, a few smaller courses on marketing (half way though Facebook firestorm now) and now looking forward to my first Roundtable meeting in october – I can now think my way out of situations quite easily. Sometimes its a matter of having a stock clearance, other times its about recognising that more or less time is needed working or that we need to hire or fire some one. I have moments when i go “EEK WHAT SHOULD I DO” but 5 mins later i have 3-4 solutions. on many occasions i think to myself “what would Perry point out here?” or i explain things to myself in Perry’s or Bryan’s voice as if i was listening to a webinar. Crazy but it works.

    The most valuable thing i have taken away from the last 12 months is this 3rd level which i think has more to do with a mindset shift – im looking for problems before they happen and im taking several paths at the same time. This has been achieved only by the experience of being a planet perry member, which im 200% sure will carry on getting better the more that im part of this club, which every level of membership is great. Renaissance club is brilliant BTW because of the CD’s – listen to them in the car to & from work.

    Anyway im rambling, so i m going to stop.

    Perry, Thanks a lot, i really appreciate all you do for us.

    Best Regards

    Dan WIlkinson

    • Perry says:


      What a great story! When I met you in London I could tell you were 100% engaged and extremely determined. It’s awesome to see your progress- This goes in this month’s newsletter….


      • Dan Wilkinson says:

        Hi Perry,

        Now i feel nervous, ha ha, but happy about that.

        See you in october,


  • Wayne Moritz says:

    I agree with Perry 110%. What he teaches is a rapidly evolving process and if you want to play there you have to pay your dues in an ongoing basis. What you master today may be the cold ticket next month.

    I have been in the software business since the mid 70’s and i work 3000-4000 hours per year to be tops in my game. I can go anywhere and name my deal. My friends when they lose their job will never find another one because the feeling of entitlement or having already paid their dues years ago is stuck in their heads. They are like an athlete that makes the team and stops working out once the contract is signed. What they don’t realize is the job just got started once you make the team.

    I could easily pluck their 90k government jobs and replace them with a 30k person as the skills vs what they do are no longer worth 90k plus benefits and they add zero value beyond showing up and pushing buttons. These guys have not picked up a book or improved their skills unless the employer has paid for it. They have wasted endless weeknights and weekends watching last place teams play sports though. They do sometimes ask me to give them shortcuts because they don’t want to do the work.

    I picked up Perry’s Google Adwords, other courses, news letters and more a few years ago and yes they piled up and sat here. I am not a web guy but an offline guy that solves complex business issues for multi-national corporations.

    I had a new prospect call and need my help with ad-words and i thought now is the time. I wanted to learn it but now i had a paying client letting me loose on their dime. I went to work probably 120 hours per week for 6 weeks, poured over Perry’s materials, bought analysis tools (looking inside competition) and kept at it until i had a working model that I felt great about. I took them live and and generated a profit from month 1. Now we are in our 4th month and they are generating 35-50k in monthly revenue and i get a piece of each deal as these are 1k-3k professional services transactions. We expect revenues to be 50-100k+ in 2012 per month as i introduce more landing pages and refine my selection process and negative keywords.

    I am using all that i have learned for my own companies and others I choose to work with. I do filter down to ones where i can make at a minimum 2k+ per month or I don’t get involved. I have a list of companies wanting help and it’s funny as i know in minutes which ones will work and which ones i walk from. The minute they tell me they want page 1 Free Google I hit the door as these are the people that want something ongoing for nothing. They are doomed to failure long term because their greed far exceeds their common sense.

    Too many people mix up Activity for Accomplishments. My friends are active but never accomplish anything because they show up, push the buttons and go home with their checks. They never take the time to learn or ask questions or improve themselves.

    My point here is you need to do the work or hire a mentor that can help you which means it takes effort and money to make money. The guys that brought me in were not afraid to pay all the ad-words costs and pay me a percentage off the gross deposits in the bank each month. I was firm saying i have 36 years experience offline and i can move my drive and ambition online with the proper tools and training quickly.

    Now everybody wins.

    • Perry says:


      Great comment. I posted this on my blog. Will find some interesting ways to use it. Thank you!

      • Wayne Moritz says:

        Another thing i thought of today was if someone goes to NBA or NFL camp that does not get them to the team it gives them the pointers to play better and improve their skills if they work at it.

        Like the song by AC/DC it’s a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll.

  • Orestes says:

    Hi! Perry,

    Thanks so much for your post and the incredible and
    honest advice especially for people like us that are
    just starting.

    Keep being just who you are my brother.

    My blessings to you and to all here!

    (happy to hear great success stories)

  • victor taylor says:

    I’ve read your book twice (Guide to Adword). I was hesitant about joining, but now I’m gonna join. You are doing a great job Perry, thanks.

  • Shmaya says:

    Maybe you have to be born a Picaso, maybe you have to spend 10,000 hrs at anything to become world class, but most people make pretty decent living simply by being average. A good system and a little extra effort will get you there. Especially if you concentrate on what you do best and delegate the rest.

    The system work if you work the system.

  • Mike Howard says:

    I agree with Joe. It’s the same as you find in systems, training courses, seminars etc, for making money on the stock market. If the trainers make so much money from using there system why offer the training? I would be happily windsurfing in Maui everyday. The reason is they make FAR more selling training than they do on the markets.
    Thanks for sending the link Perry.

  • B. says:

    This DiSorbo-stuff is the question I have been thinking about a lot lately. Hence me in the comments here.

    I am a book worm. And actually one of those who believe you can learn stuff from that books AND put them into practice. Which I’ve really done in some other fields in life.

    However, I have come to 2 conclusions about this one:
    1. related to expectations. OK, so you can’t be Michelangelo but you can still sell your paintings well to the art galleries, or to clients for their dining and living rooms or both, and make a decent buck.
    Which further means, you probably can’t be Glenn, Jay Abraham, Perry or any other IM guru, because of the “art” factor or whatever, but that does not necessarily mean you can’t learn from the above mentioned how to make, say, 10.000 a month, 20.000 a month. (What’s wrong with 20.000 a month? especially if you are making 2000, 3000 or a bit more. Or a bit less.)

    2.related to learning process – it seems that many people, especially if they are not teachers – don’t really understand and appreciate the power of good, old – repetitio (= mater studiorum). Jay Abraham said something along these lines. I can’t quote him now but it goes along the lines that you can’t really capture all his experience in just one listening or reading. Which resonates with me quite well. When I find something extremely valuable that talks to me big time, I try to listen to it/read it at least three times, make notes, make a mind map, apply what I can right that moment.
    I learned that, especially if one is a book worm, devouring large quantities of books, it isn’t useful if you are just going to read it and put it back on the shelf. Therefore I became very picky about what I am going to read and very thorough about acquiring the stuff.
    Thank you Perry for your newsletter. Really good stuff

  • Bill says:

    This post contains some of the best advice I’ve read ANYWHERE for how to think through and DECIDE what niche to go into. Thank you for sharing this invaluable, step-by-step guidance.

  • Rachel Williamson says:

    Wow, I’ve had a surfeit of ‘Perryisms’ this evening. Soooo gooood. You have an amazing way of putting into words what every one of us has sensed but have not articulated.

    If I implement just 10% of what I get from Perry Marshall, I will be supremely successful.

  • SR says:


    Not sure if you will get this or even read this but worth a note as we were discussing this very thing over beers last night. :)

    Brilliant response.

    I am an enterprise sales rep who has sold millions for companies like IBM / Rogers Communications and run 4 businesses in addition to having 3 kids and somewhat of a small social life.

    The problem is people think they can learn sales from a book or a one week firehose training course.

    You see you can take a horse that runs fast naturally and turn him into a racehorse but you physically cannot “teach the horse” to have “quick twitch” muscles required to win a race against those that possess this advantage.

    It’s harsh but it’s true. Not everyone can sell and this is why headhunters make very healthy livings finding top reps that demand 6 figure + base salaries to sell products.

    The first problem is everyone thinks they can sell or they think selling is easy and salespeople have easy jobs making loads of money for chit chat. I have seen literally hundreds of reps before my very eyes burn out and fade away or get caught in the endless cycles of trying to sell. Accept that sales is tough and not easy nor is anyone getting rich quickly or working 4 hours weeks without years of being dragged through the mud.

    You see the key difference between a rock star and a struggler is the rock star failed 500 times before succeeding but never once blamed anyone else but themselves nor did they ever talk about failure until there was a success story behind it.

    This is the second major issue. People cannot accept failure or even consistent failure as an option. It is this impatience that breeds puddle jumping reps and those who complain about their inability to sell due to the fact they never learned why they failed and likely kept repeating the same mistakes.

    I truly believe that if you were not born with the art of persuasion in your DNA then make sure the above two disciplines are accepted as learned habits and you may have a fighting chance.

    Don’t ever stop learning and keeping an open mind, always respect your competitor and ensure that you don’t “sell” your customer rather let them “buy” from you. Fail fail fail and fail again and consider those your courses in business. Only then will courses like these become effective for people and turn horses without “quick twitch” muscles into a formidable competitor that knows the weaknesses and strengths of himself and his competitor in order to have a fighting chance to survive.

    But if you can’t pay your bills or make a dollar persuading people than find something g else to do in the meantime that will pay the bills. Never blame anybody else for this.

    As Al Pacino said in the movie “any given Sunday” – “you gotta fight for that inch or die trying”.

    Keep up the great work

    • Perry says:

      GREAT comments. Nice.

  • Bill Perry says:

    I would jump in here with the idea that the goal is not EVER to exactly replicate someone else’s results. The real goal is to learn from them the structure of how they do what they do. This includes the steps, but also includes learning the beliefs the person has that makes it possible in the first place.

    The key here is elegance. Elegance the way I use it simply means that “good enough is good enough”. Elegance is the bare bones amount of knowledge and belief that it takes to replicate a certain ability.

    Of course you won’t be able to ever replicate Michelangelo’s works, and why would you want to? If you were to ask Michelangelo enough of the right and prudent questions, instead of replicating his work, you’d replicate his ability to generate works of your own. They would naturally have your own style to them, since you are operating on a vastly different mental map than Michelangelo is.

    But in this case, you would to create artful masterpieces in the same CLASS of art that Michelangelo did, but the end result would be different somehow. That’s where the real beauty is of taking on models of other people’s skills and abilities and knowledge.


    • Perry says:


  • Peter says:


    He does have a point. Some people just want to buy the service and not the “how to do it yourself”. But then I appreciate as well that selling the “how to” part is more lucrative than selling the service to individual companies. Because of the value of sellinbg the “how to” the actual service becomes very expensive and thus only accessible to big companies with large budgets.

    The idea that personality is a big factor is true too, but I think that goes more for selling the “how to”. I think relatively many people are good marketers, but few are able (or willing) to sell them selves. Because that’s what people like you are very good at, selling yourselves. That’s not meant in a negative way. I just see that the famous marketers in the world are always good at marketing themselves and I think that besides being able to, you really need to want to do that as well.

    The difficulty with “how to” is that a “follow these steps and you can’t fail” is an illusion. This doesn’t exist. But it’s often sold this way. In order to get good at it people need to understand what they´re doing and not just blindly follow the steps. A blind person can learn every step of driving a car, but he’ll never be able to drive a car. It’s necessary to see what is happening. Just following the marketing steps but not being able to see what’s actually happening, is almost a guarantee to failure. This is what he calls the “art”.

    I’ve seen this in music too. Great guitarist for example, they´re not technically better than the average guy. Their greatness sits actually in their ability to hear music in much more detail. And because they can hear more, they play better. You can’t reproduce great music if you´re not able to hear what makes that music great.

    Talent often sits somewhere else than where you expect it. But it’s always related to perception and intuition.

  • Bob Freedman says:

    Did Joe consider flying from NY to L.A.?