Perry’s Greed

Perry,
I think you have every right to charge what you want for your information but this entire situation could have been avoided if you would have responded with a little less arrogance. Maybe made a joke about going to lunch with 100
people. After all, giving out valuable information is at your discretion. Meeting for lunch may have gained you several more customers for your high end coaching program.I think your comment was out of place.
I have been in Business for 25 Years and I can tell you that those who think they are invincible
usually end up being invisible.

I have not yet met you Perry… but I will, and when I do I will be GLADLY paying for the time I have with you!

I would imagine you have spent millions of dollars in literal cash and time to learn what you know and it would be absolutely rediculous to expect you to just sit and map out someones business plan just because they bought you a sandwich.

What could you possibly accomplish over lunch anyway? Geez!

Charge that guy $1400 an hour… AND make him buy you lunch!!!

Perry — sounds like it’s time to raise your rates.

Dennis — learn to spell… it might make you a tiny bit more persuasive.

Brian

Sometimes it’s not what you say, but how you say it.

I wasn’t there, and didn’t read your newsletter. Who knows, maybe you came across like an arrogant bastard. And without the context you put in your response above, I can readily understand how someone may have taken offense.

I like your work, Perry. We’ve never done business together, but I value the obvious smarts you have. And yours are among the few (and I mean few) messages I read entirely… which helps explain why I’m even bothering to respond to your post.

Peace.

I think a man has to stand up for what his time is worth.

That said, the way you said it happened sounded arrogant and abrasive. Kennedy may be able to get away with something like this because he’s a jerk and he knows it.

You clearly are not a jerk, but you acted like one.

With a little more tact, thoughtfulness and positioning, you could have avoided the upset, and still got your point across.

One thing that keeps me reading your emails Perry is how much advice you give away every day. But I have some empathy for this guy. I too am learning to have respect for the response that any one gives me when I ask for their time, friendship, or what have you. The point is, if you are needy, you can and do attribute lots of bad stuff to the people who say no to you. But if you are ok in your own apace, a no is just a no…no matter how it gets delivered. But it’s not so easy to reflect inward to see that your outward judgements are really you looking in the mirror.

My vote’s with Maximillian Sepeda.

This is not the first time Perry’s publicly vented over someone who has criticized him privately, without them having the chance to defend themselves. Fortunately it doesn’t happen too often. I agree with Perry’s logic; he doesn’t owe anyone anything. But I don’t know why this needed to be done in public.

Perry,

I completely understand your position. I’m nowhere near as successful as you are, but I nonetheless receive coffee/lunch invites on a regular basis.

Often, I say yes because the person was referred to me by a friend or client, etc.

But if I don’t know the person from Adam, it’s difficult to agree to such a proposal. There are often much better ways to spend my time — for instance, with my wife and kids.

Imagine if movie stars agreed to spend time with anybody who asked. They’d never sleep!

Every business person needs boundaries. Good for you for establishing your boundaries and enforcing them.

Ryan

The spoken word and the written word do not always come across the same way. In reading the remarks it did seem a bit over done and lacked a little tact that could have been exercised.

However, I do agree that a consultant should be paid for their time, albeit at a seminar or lunch. So if the purpose of publicizing this is to gain something, I believe Dennis needs a better understanding of how a consultant earns his money and Perry should use a bit more diplomacy in declining a lunch invitation.

I think one of the most important points Perry made was the fact that it was easy for Dennis to go to lunch and give free advice because that wasn’t what he was selling. if someone asked for a free one of whatever widget he was selling, the answer almost certainly what have been an emphatic no! especially if he was asked all of the time. How can he judge you for not giving what you sell away for free?

Greed? Greed is not just wanting but EXPECTING free advice from a busy guy who already gives away a lot, and has worked his tail off to become an authority in his field!

Perry

I bought the book and study all the email stuff you send me all the time and my knowledge of Internet marketing has increased many fold. Unfortunately, I still don’t know everything!

Imagine you were a struggling actor and Robert De Niro offered to have lunch with you if you paid for his time. Would you go? I would.

I would gladly pay you $700 an hour to spend time with you but I wouldn’t waste it eating. How can you talk with your mouth full?

Anyway it would have to be McDonalds as I live in England I would have to make the airfare up somehow.

Chris Lozetsky

I was a customer of perry’s Bobsled coaching and iam happy with the way our business is running! So i believe any serious person would so something serious when they need to take a serious business decision. Just picking up brains during lunch is such a LAME and LAZY thought for that matter. I appreciate perry for his polite reply! Imagine how would Donald trump would have reacted to that request! LOL I personally hate to see perry among a group of people sitting fat, asking silly questions, laughing loud, BULLSHIT! They need to pay for what the value of advice is worth!

For that email i’d have fired Dennis from my customer list or any list!

Hi Perry,

“Let me take you out to lunch”… Dennis (and Federico) made it sound like picking your brain for advice wasn’t on the agenda or even a consideration.

Ol’ Abe said it best: “A lawyer’s [consultant's] stock in trade is his time and advice.”

You gave an honest and thoughtful answer to an emotional question.

Frankly, the value you provide in your emails and newsletters continually astounds me.

Tricky…yet beautifully designed. I believe this is less about the eithics/reasons of charging for lunch and more about the tools to use to get people to click and give up their email address….just a thought.

They’re not going to see it this way, but the greed is on the part of the folks wanting to pick your brain for free. You just got done speaking to them, sharing your expertise, and yet they think it’s your duty to continue to give for free. I think their offer should have been just lunch, without any of their own (greedy) ulterior motives, as nice gesture of thanks. Now that would have been class. But that’s not how things are done any longer in our cheap, self-entitled Walmart society. And you had the audacity to be perfectly honest with them and assertive about your boundaries. You absolutely selfish beast, you (NOT!). The greed is in their expectation that you are obligated to them. It’s THAT kind of greed that is heading our country “into the dumpster.”

Perry,

I read all your emails and learn more from those than any other marketer out there. So, you are giving free advice but as you said most don’t follow it. As Dennis I guess knows, it is a free country and you can do what you please. The government being so wasteful is the reason we are in all this trouble, has nothing at all to do with the small business owner.

Hey Perry,

You’ve set boundaries for yourself, and you enforce them. That’s to your credit and it is harder to do than most people realize.

David Olgivy talked about how his partner left the office everyday at 5 p.m. no matter what was going on. That takes some b*lls, to follow through and be consistent.

And, you are being consistent.

Sure, it’d be easy to roll over and bend the rules, but it goes against how you’ve chosen segment your time–and I’d imagine when you have “free” time, you’d just as soon spend it doing things of your choosing.

(marketing lesson: 80/20 anyone?)

You’ve earned that, and it’s something many of us value: time and resources to give toward people of our choosing, with a healthy dose of self-direction.

What other people think of any of us is none of our business, as the old saying goes, and if you fall for everything, you’ll ultimately stand for nothing.

Good on you, Perry. I think it’s called “tough love” in the old school…

All the best,

John

Dennis, 58 years on the planet and you never found it important enough to learn how to write proper English? It makes you seem, well, uneducated. With 58 years under your belt, you must realize that you have less time ahead of you than behind you. Same thing with Perry. Time is money. Why would you give it away indiscriminately? Something tells me that you are railing against somebody else’s greed – maybe your own.

Perry,
You are a professional and entirely within your right to charge your regular fee for a luncheon session with a client or prospective client. I don’t know what conversations or negotiations ensued prior to your lunch, but if this charge had been made clear to the person prior to the lunch, it’s fair. People don’t like surprises. This issue is not about greed. It’s about communication-communication-communication.
All the best,
Donna

Perry -

I meet people every week for lunch (not from a 100,000 person list, but from a 300 person list) and can point to $1000+ in business every month for the restaurant that hosts those lunches.

I’ve never done 100 people for lunch, but our peak is something like 31. Everyone pays for their own lunch and everyone gets introduced and everyone is out of there by 1:15pm.

It should not be hard to generate $700 worth of value over lunch, if you have the right format and the right people. It’s an awful format for one on one consulting, but you do have to eat, and there’s some joy in not eating a sandwich alone at your desk.

Greedy? It’s called supply and demand. Simple. Greed is when you try and get more than the market can bear. This is not a case of greed.

First, Dennis, our economy’s trouble has less to do with greed than sloth. The principles upon which our nation is founded have been treated like some quaint relic, occasionally to be dusted off. Oversight and management of our financial and economic affairs? Practically non-existent. The blame is bi-partisan. The People? Fit to be tied. And tie us up the enemy will! Our Treasury is being PURPOSELY bankrupted.

And, Perry, those persons who wanted to take you to lunch… Could they have become your first-line managers who, promoting the “Perry Marshall Way,” could one day bring your business orders of magnitude more revenue? Was it Perry Marshall who missed out on a great opportunity to build a dedicated sales force? Seems an Amway guy might see the value in having such an asset … particularly when there’s something of extraordinarily unique value to sell.

Now, here’s something controversial… Screw the AIDS orphans in Africa. Your money would be better spent getting rid of those political elements in our own country who leave Africa in its vulnerable, condemned state. In other words, how are we behaving any differently … any better … any more benevolently … than, say, the British Empire? Has our nation’s principle, indeed, been subverted by this Empire’s continuing tyranny (most notably by those same commercial interests who animate its being), as much now as 232 years ago?

Keep your money here, Perry. Get rid of the aristocracy-loving scum running our country, who sell out our Treasury to the filth on Wall Street and their controllers in the City of London.

By the way, I’m bullish the stock market for the very fact the sell-out has succeeded in setting up the U.S. Treasury for its pending bankruptcy sometime in the next 5-20 years.

The information I just gave you is worth far more than what you charge per hour…

Perry – spot on!

Anything that is ‘free’ is by definition valueless. That is why the benefits and facilities provided under socialism are so often abused. A consultant’s fees reflect their hours of learning and skills development which can be passed on to the requestor, so that they can take a short cut to success.
The guy’s spelling and grammar says much about his likelihood of success….
Ian

Perry,

As someone who has been one of your subscribers for over two years, and having purchased one of your $1,000 consulting packages…YOU ROCK!

A relationship consultant once said, “You need to ask for what you want from people, but be willing to accept what you get.” I loved that statement. I think this is a prime example of someone asking you for what they wanted…lunch. However, you have every freedom to reply however you choose. It’s called ‘freedom of choice’. Fundamentally, you were dead on when you spoke of being a steward of your time before God.

Even moreso…when (as one of the meeting attendees stated — you stayed 3 hours beyond your committed time giving free advice) we get to see that you were already giving quite a bit.

Anyone who wanted lunch had that moment in time to ask their questions. C’mon for cryin out loud. Some people want your blood and they’re still not happy.

I think you handled it in great way. I’ll stop by your office when I’m in Chi-town so we can grab lunch .

Ramon

Perry already gives away plenty of free or almost free advice in his e-mails, newsletters, teleseminars, books, etc. If you want one-on-one Q&A time with him, you have to pay the price. It seems reasonable to me.

When you’re just starting out, you might need to offer free consultations and lunches just to get established, but once you’re in the position to command $700/hour, there’s no reason to start doing volunteer work to help out a business.

Perry,

I think there are two obvious take-aways from Dennis’ request and your repsonse:

1) An economics lesson. Supply vs. Demand and what people will (and do) pay for goods or services.

2) A contrast between generations. You don’t have to go back very far (past GenY and GenX) to understand where Dennis’ expectations stood. This is not an attempt to label anyone or any group, but I believe people are more aware now about their value to themselves (as entrpeneurs) and their employers than they were 30 years ago.

After reading your response and the rationale behind it, I will make sure to have a similar explanation if this situation is presented to me.

I’m often faced with the same situation as what Perry just shared with us (my hourly rate is $175 so a bit more affordable but I get similar guff from someone who buys one of my books or products and then wants free consulting to help them start or buy a business to go with the purchase). That kind of unrealistic expectation does make (or I should say “used to make”) for an awkward exchange. When I could I used to give time away but it really became a matter where I just could not meet that demand because I have to focus on producing revenue and not devoting time for “freebies”. You have to draw a line.

Perry nailed it. It is extremely rare for a person who I helped for free, to actually go out and do anything. Whereas someone who paid very often goes out and follows my advice, gets things done and accomplishes the goal of what they wanted to pay me to help them with. They appreciate the value that I gave them which is always more than what they paid for. That is a “give back” in my book.

Hello Perry, I read this blog post with great interest. Like you, I could sense that Dennis was getting more angry the more he ranted.

And I have to confess to a certain amount of empathy with some of what he was saying — at least to start with.

However, your polite yet robust response was right on the money. (No pun intended)

It is so indefensibly put that I wonder if Dennis had the grace to acknowledge that.

My own opinion on “advice” is simply that I do not give it.

Talk is cheap, and advice freely given is frequently of no value.

When people seek my advice, my response is “I don’t give advice, I’m not entitled to tell you what to do or what not to do. However, what I can say is that if I was in your position my opinion would be (fill in the blank) and what I would do is (fill in the blank)”.

In your professional capacity as a teacher, coach, guide, mentor, you are sought out by serious people for help.

They may be at their wits end and desperate for support.

What you are providing is more than advice, it is guidance. And that carries with it a heavy responsibility for both parties.

The giver does not do so lightly, and the receiver is expected to take action based on it.

Otherwise it’s a waste of everyone’s time and effort.

Since this transaction is so serious it is not at all unreasonable for it to carry a serious financial cost.

If you don’t value your time, how can you expect anyone else to?

I generally agree with the writer. But the issue seems to one of approach. Maybe Perry could have explained himself a bit better at the time rather than just off the cuff refusing lunch.

Perry,

All I ever bought from you was your original Adwords ebook. I found it to be better than some of the $5000 dollar coaching programs floating around. I agree with you: anyone who really wants free AUTHENTIC information should just subscribe to your newsletter. Then they will know whether you give away things or not.

I also get this type of complaints from my own subscribers. And I’m in a niche where everyone feels everything should be free. So I give away 61% but I lock down 39%. I used to argue, like your good self, that those who get things for free never use them. Now I’m being forced to revise my thinking. Hundreds of those who REALLY pay attention to the free stuff have been reporting great successes of late. But that doesn’t mean everything should be free — for the very reasons that you mentioned.

God bless,
elisha

This person obviously does not know you very well Perry. I am constantly amazed at all the free advice, MP3 downloads, etc., that you send me via e-mail. And NONE of it is EVER junk! Several times I have replied with a sincere “thank you Perry” — knowing full well that you would never get the message. So if you really do read all these replies, please know how much you are valued and appreciated for sharing your incredible knowledge so freely. Thank you!!!

Ironically, Dennis is the one who is greedy for your time and advice, and he’s grumbling that he doesn’t get what he wants.

Thank you for sharing your response, Perry. Aptly worded with wisdom and understanding. I especially appreciated your wisdom in acknowledging “I am a STEWARD of my time and I am responsible before God for how I use it.”

Happy Thanksgiving!
Hebrews 4:13

Hey Perry. How bout a Cubs game next year? I got great seats!

keep up the great work Perry. Love the free mp3′s.

Neil

ps: I have a better chance of getting Paris Hilton to agree to have lunch with me than Perry:-)

WOW !

After reading many of the comments, I now know why you have such a following and why people are willing to pay for your valuable advice.

I feel like that I share a group debt to you for all the Free advice you offer everyone.

There are some very caring people and Great Minds or Thinkers who replied with good advice for us all!

Would you consider trying to post a Summary of your Professional prospective on all these comments, without your personal oponion’s or an emotional reply back to any of them ?

I think that this has been a very interesting experiment in people movitation.

Perry,
I think Dennis was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Someone is being greedy, but it ain’t you, it’s him. Dennis either doesn’t know or doesn’t care about all the FREE content you send out via email. That’s just not enough for him. He’s entitled to much, much more. Not sure why, but doggone it, people just LIKE him.
You could give Dennis ALL of your stuff, ALL of your seminars, FOR FREE, and he’d never appreciate it. No doubt he doesn’t appreciate the fact that you gave him a personal answer to an email while hundreds of others have to be satisfied with a subordinate or even no answer at all.
Keep up the good work, Perry, and never, ever let anyone PICK your brain–what if they don’t put everything back in the right place?

Perry,

You may well be worth far more than $700/hour, especially to the right client, perhaps even me.

At one time, I estimated my own time at $2000/hour, and it was a stressful, busy time. At that rate, nobody could afford my advice, obviously, but they continued to ask, even pester, anyway.

One of the things my father would kid me about when I first tasted success, he would say, “Your time is worth so much, you cannot even afford to go to the bathroom!” Or, he’d clap his hands and say “Wipers!” to mimic Eddie Murphy in the movie, “Coming to America” to tease me.

But I was still left with the problem of how to properly allocate my time!

I discovered that telling people what my time was worth was nearly always counterproductive, as it led to increased envy and frustration, for both the advice seeker, and me.

I developed other ways for people to tap into what I know, and milder and easier ways to share. I also have 85,000 people on my email list, so maybe I could teach you a thing or two about marketing.

To be honest, I’m the kind of guy you should seek to have lunch with for free, but then again, who would pay who, and how much? But then again, I have not made you a compelling offer, either.

Be careful. What is God’s time worth? Be thankful that God does not have such limits on his time, and that God gives to us freely.

In your case, it costs YOU $700/hour just to talk to God, pray, or read the Bible, which can be quite the disincentive for you, if you are not careful, and if you lose your perspective.

I agree that the other man who expected free $700 worth of advice for a $20 lunch was more greedy than yourself, Perry. That was a good insight.

Then again, remember that you are a teacher, and such a man was obviously in need of teaching and correction, and perhaps there is a better way of teaching that does not lead the seeker to anger and resentment, but thankfulness and appreciation, instead, as others have already pointed out.

I don’t always get that right, obviously, as many people will always be bitter, no matter how you try to help them, but still, I try.

I’m still learning myself, and I appreciate the opportunity here to share what little I know on this topic.

Perry, you are absolutely right. As a lawyer, I’m always shocked at how people think that buying a lunch is somehow different than paying for my normal services. My product is my time, and I only have so much of it.

Dennis said “Come on, lets get real here if this kind of greed does not stop this country is headed for the dumpster.”

I say “Come on, lets get real here if Dennis’ kind of feelings of entitlement do not stop this country is headed for the dumpster.”

Perry – Two comments:

1) I hope you received Dennis’ permission to post his email to you.

It was obviously directed and addressed specifically to you. It wasn’t a blog post or other public posting – it was a personal email. If you didn’t get his permission, I would agree that you are just trying to make a public “event” out of this, and try to stay on the forefront of people’s attention at Dennis’ expense. I enjoy the content of your emails, and your writing style, but at the end of the day, it’s just part of a campaign to sell yourself, and this particular email and web link is part of that.

2) I agree with your basic message about the value of your time, but not the way you delivered it. Many of us are busy and get solicited for our time, or our money, or our expertise.

When I think about the people I admire in my life, they are all busy people, and yet can all juggle requests upon their time without belittling others.

Right on Perry!
I have never purchased a single item from you. Yet, I’ve learned more from you than I have from any other “guru”. I look forward to your emails and tele-seminars all the time. I’ve gained so many tools and value from the free info which have already put money in my pocket…so that’s an exponential return on invesment.

You are worth every penny of what you charge.

I think Dennis misses the point that if he paid you that $700 fee, it would probably bring him back at least 10 times that amount if he implemented your advice correctly.

By charging for your time, you also eliminate the time wasters…those who talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk.

I’m looking forward to the day that I need to pay you $6,500 to spend the day with you. I’m not there yet, but I know it will be great day when I’m spending thousands just to hear you speak. Because after that day, I know a fortune will be right around the corner!

Dean Teitelbaum

See Dan Kennedy’s No B.S. Time Management Book for Enterpreneurs.

Perry’s read it… its my time management bible.

Every entrepreneur should read it.

Ben Glass
Fairfax, VA

Perry:

I disagree with you. I frequently attend seminars/events and have spoken at seminars. Meeting people for lunch afterwards is not something I would charge for. It’s the civil thing to do and is part and parcel of attending a seminar-especially as a speaker.

You were disrespctful to the attendees and the organizers in my opinion.

Frequently poeple approach speakers for follow up questions after a speech. The civil thing to do is to continue to educate, and if it is lunchtime why not join them for lunch?
Also your response reveals a problematic approach to marketing and presentation. Why mention the children in Africa? That turns me off.

Knowing where to put the “X”:

An elderly gentleman retired from his 40-year job as equipment maintenance engineer at a manufacturing plant. He was given a token parting gift by the company – no “golden handshake” or exotic pension plan. After he’d been retired for a few months, he received an urgent call from the plant manager. An expensive piece of machinery critical to operations had failed, and production had ceased as the equipment maintenance staff struggled to repair it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were being lost each day the production line was down. The elderly engineer told the manager he would return to the plant to look
at the machine, but as an outside consultant. The plant manager agreed, saying, “Anything you want, just help us out.”

The engineer arrived at the plant, tested the machine and looked it over for about five minutes. He then walked over to the drawings of the machine and drew an “X” over a small component in the interior of the machine. “Replace this part, and the machine will work perfectly again, ” he said. Then he left. The part was quickly replaced, and he was right – the machine began operating and production was up again within the hour.

Two weeks later the plant manager received a bill from the elderly engineer: $50,000 for consulting services. Remembering the engineer had spent only five minutes looking at the machine and identifying the problem, the plant manager telephoned the elderly gentleman and angrily demanded a detailed invoice. The following day the detailed invoice arrived:

Time spent identifying the problem: $5.00

Knowing where to put the “X”: $49,995.00

BTW Perry, I am working on a system that is getting good results and has the realistic potential to net 100 million per month. Contact me
kevin7314@gmail.com

Hello Perry,

It has been said a few times already. Maybe if you had said what you did in a bit of a nicer way the whole thing might have been avoided. Also, don’t forget, to many people on your mailing list that is a rather large sum, including me.
One more thing, maybe you should pick one or two people every month to have lunch with minus the $700/ hour fee. People who you know are not rich and don’t have tons of money to spend. Kind of like winning the Perry Marshal lunch lottery.
And yes, I think you have handled the whole thing well.

Way to go Perry! I always love your responses to crap like that. Why is it that people don’t seem to value time the way they do a tangible product, yet the actual value of time(especially yours) is often worth SO much more? I think this Dennis guy just doesn’t value his OWN time.

Hey, I’d love to be your next best friend and do lunch just like the other 100K people on your list, but that wouldn’t be fair to you or paying customers.

-Susan
Current Bobsledder happily paying for Perry’s time

Perry I agree with you.

I have saved clients in some instances almost 50 million annually. Then i get the potential client that tells me all the great things we will do together. They keep asking for more detail and a proposal and i tell the fine pay me for 3-5 days and i will get you one.

If they are serious they will make me a vendor and cut a check before i go any further.

After working in hundreds of companies i know when they are trying to pick my brain for free and intend to do nothing except hang a carrot out. I usually find these people to be the slackers and people that do not add much value to a company but play the CYA and get off of my TURF game.

I have worked 60-100 hours per week over the last 30 years to master my craft (not playing golf and going to sports events all the time) and now if i see the bait and switch i give them just enough to hang themself out there.

They either hire me, call my stuff unworkable because they don’t have the missing wisdom to deliver the solution or hang themselves.

You materials do contain most of the information and maybe instead of playing golf or watcing a football game on a sunday they could study the materials and learn something instead of trying to cut to the front of the line.

Hi Perry

As a teacher and hotel owner I make it policy never to argue with customers … I can see how his email was ill-considered … How about, “Dennis thanks for the invite, you may be right, but my schedule won’t allow for lunch right now. Best wishes ….”

John Wootton

Perry, once more you nailed it. i don’t think you left anything out with your response. You completed the circle. Brilliant! It’s all about the big picture. Value in the big picture takes a different form…not only value, for that matter. I think it has to do with that victimhood syndrom.

Sometimes you can detect the child or teenager running the show in adults bodies. Sometimes is just a thought. The thought attached to the resentment of a little child, not big enough to see the big picture.

You are a genius

You are a genius

Here are my points on this one:

If I were the one asking to take you out, I may have been offended depending on how your response was structured…

NOT!

I wouldn’t have been offended at all, and I would have respected your time even more.

It is cool to have lunch with your customers, and you do that at certain events and occassions, but I can see your side as well.

If I had as many people ask me out for lunch as you do, I would have drawn the line somewhere as well.

It is not that you wouldn’t have enjoyed lunch. It may have been a lot of fun actually. But sometime it is necessary to send the message across to all these unecessary requests, so that you could clear up some time and only go to lunch when you ask for it.

(Which, could be the reason behind this post after all )

We all have only 24 hrs in a day, and there is prioritizing that has to kick in.

My hunch is that those who think you acted like a jerk and that you should have accepted the free lunch, have never had hundreds of people asking them for their time. It gets to be too much sometime.

Thank you for your leadership

Nik

Hi Perry,

I can’t afford your hourly rates, but I have gobbled up your free advice for several years. Thanks for sharing your insights with small business guys like me. When I first implemented your suggestions, my results from Adwords increased four fold and my monthly bill from Google dropped by 50%. I think I owe you a free lunch.

Thanks,

Jim D.

Way to go Perry! You have a charge rate and they want you to work for food. I get loads of emails asking for personal gardening advice – my response is ‘buy my book’ – it’s only $10 but no, they expect your time for free.
Yep, I’m greedy and mean I won’t give my time for free to strangers. I prefer to feed my family and give to real charities.
Good for you.
John

There’s no way to charge for an offer of free lunch that isn’t going to offend some people.

Run your business as you see fit.

Some gurus suggest some giveaways, others say that when you show up, you charge them. There is no clear answer outside of context.

Perry, the first time I listened to your advice is when you sold a 3 ring binder with audio CDs (probally your first product).. your voice was so shrieky … I had to turn if off for a few minutes and then turn it back on just to continue listening (I just couldn’t bear the sound of your voice or the rcoording of it for long periods)…. your information back then (as it is now) is extremely valuable…. if the pain of listening to your voice (back then) was worth anything to understand your strategies …paying your consultant fee today is a bargain… we need you to stay on top…John

Perry,
I don’t think that either I or Dennis are qualified to comment on your greediness or lack thereof. Nor are most of the self-righteous commenters in this thread qualified to do the same. However, what I can say is that I have been your customers (in the Renaissance Club) and had to cancel. I canceled because of two things, both of which are no doubt choices you’ve made about how to relate to people:
1) The information was not dense enough. I was deluged with emails, offers, links to websites that linked to more websites and never came up with the pearls of truth I needed to take advantage of your experience. The common thread was that the information was self-promoting and too story-focused, and while the stories were fun, they didn’t help my business.
2) Most of the communications you offered were just gateways to signing up to purchase even more. Instead of paying to get something, I seemed to be paying to get advertisements for something. Sifting through the constant barrage became an irritant.

So, whether you’re a giving or a greedy guy I don’t know. But your marketing is manipulative. Perhaps that’s what works, but it is out of alignment with my committment to win/win outcomes and absolute equality between myself any anyone I deal with. Often, manipulation works, but it isn’t clean because sooner or later, you have to pay the piper when someone feels betrayed by your manipulation. You may be a very giving guy (I support African AIDS orphans too!) but if the gift comes with any strings at all, it isn’t a gift. The simplest change you can make is to get rid of any kind of signup or committment from someone you’re giving something to in your business. As one of the other posters pointed out, when you give from the open heart, it is returned in ways you can never imagine. It is only your expectations – in the form of what you expect or require to get back from your giving – that limit the return.

“I’m not a salesman. I’m a consultant. Advice, not widgets, is what I sell”

As a consultant, that one positioning phrase alone (which I got above for free) will make or save me money for the rest of my working life

Your wife could have also mentioned that most people don’t realize that you are, in fact, a very generous person. I agree that it’s better to charge for what you do to earn a living and give away something else or at least only give away your expertise to charity.
It’s well known in my community that I have a lot of valuable contacts and a good reputation. I’m constantly being asked to “network” by people who just want something for nothing. I have a hard time handling that situation. Thanks for the advice.

Dear Perry,

First off thanks for sharing your thoughts and asking for comments. I have unsubscribed from the Renesanse Club and cancelrd my membership. I did that because I am yet to develop my business to the level, where I will apreciate the highest level of your intelligent advices.
You do remind Mr. Dorian Grey sometimes, but just a little) And I do not think it is about greed that you are not accepting lunch invitations-there are so many of us looking for magic advice instead of giving time and afforts to study and then implement what is freely available from you and other genereous marketers.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!
Warmest regards from Ukraine!

Reaction:

Well one thing is: I read the reaction of Perry all the way till the end.
This means I found it very good reading: objective with very convincing and realistic arguments.

It is a sign of not being arrogant really..and staying centred under pretty heavy attack.

Good he gave this reaction.

regards ,

Jorke van Eerten, Netherlands

Perry, I really look forward to your emails and read every single word of them. I take the info you give freely and utilize it. I wish I could afford to take you to a “working” lunch! Maybe one day…

As far as for Dennis – first of all he needs help with his spelling and punctuation! Second of all he’s way to arrogant and I personally wouldn’t want to be around such a man. His whining will get him nowhere in life.

Keep doing what you do because you do it very well!

Sharon

Perry,
Naturally, you can’t go to lunch with everyone who invites you. I also think that you were right to refuse these invitations. It might even be argued that those invitations were thinly veiled attempts at getting something valuable for nothing and it was they who were being greedy. Like Dennis I’ve met some wonderful selfless people and some very greedy people in the busines world, many of whom wanted my money and others who were after my time. Perhaps his frustration comes from the way you formed your response. No one would expect Bill Gates or the president or a famous actor to have lunch with them just because they asked. People understand that this person’s appeal outstrips their available time. You may have intended your response to be humorous, but, it came off sounding a little obnoxious and short-sighted. Someone as smart as you should be able to find a more tactful way of quickly explaining that you just can’t accomodate all the requests of your time and still serve your clients the way they deserve. Having said that, if you’re ever in Central North Carolina and you’re up for lunch I’ll only charge you $300 an hour =)

Perry, I know the feeling well. Just retired (age 70) and one of the reasons was the number of people who picked my brain and then tried to do what I do for a living. I am a consultant for storefront retailers who want to have a going out of business sale. I got tired of people calling me a number of times probing for information (as well calling a number of other liquidators) and then doing the sale themselves. Result: They didn’t know what they were doing and then called to have me “rescue” them. Look, if I am going to give out value (information) then I expect to be paid for it. This is not a pro bono business.

Perry;
Knowledge is a very powerfull and enviable entity. Those of us who seek it read your messages and come away more informed. Never have I thought that you were greedy, in fact just the opposite. Dennis is the uninformed greedy person. He obviously sells a commodity and does not equate the difference. I hope he reads these comments and becomes enlightened without anger.

Hi Perry.
I personally have learned a lot from your adwords book and your programs and believe you have valuable advice to offer. “Valuable Advice!” Yes it has value!
Your site and newsletters are full of great information and have helped me tremendously. However, there is quite a large dollop of ego on display as well. I am not surprised that you were chastised for greed, (although I think in equal measure perhaps you are being chastised for bragging as well). I am surprised that you responded.
“…you mentioned it in an email…” Actually you mention it a lot. I believe part of the problem is that you quite often make it a point to mention how much you charge, how much you are in demand, and how many people you advise. It seems to me that many of the communications you send me include ‘oversell’ of your value… and in my mind it often seems as if you are trying to justify yourself. Go back over the last 20 emails you have sent out. How much teaching… how much selling… and maybe just a bit — bragging?
PS: I get your free emails in one account, and have paid for the Renaissance Club in another… got your email twice. Seems to me it must really be bothering you if you sent it to both your free list and your Renaissance folks.

truth is a ladder

the level you are on affects how you see the world

if you are on a rung lower than someone else you will find a higher truth offensive

Newtonian mechanics works well, but its wrong/a lie

quantum mechanics works well, but its wrong/a lie

The truth that helps you now is not the truth that will help you when you are more successful.

May I suggest you find the truth that works for you now, where you are now. If you do so and take action on it, you will more quickly travel down your path to higher truths.

some insta quotes:
reality bites
reality is a truth sandwich
let reality determine reality

Kevin Moriarty

Perry, you spoke your truth and set expectations.

That is something most people struggle with inside themselves.

They aren’t 100% congruent with their self-belief.

You are. And from you, I’ve learned to do the same.

When people call me now for JVs (I get like 5 a day), my criteria is:

- NO risk on my part

- NO time on my part

- NO money on my part

It’s fascinating how that criteria brings out the best and most lasting partnerships!

Thanks Perry..your devoted student..

Ari Galper
Creator of ChatWise
http://www.ChatWise.com

Dennis just does not get it… good response, having just forked over another $2,500 to my consultant for work I know the value of it and am quite glad to pay for it.

As you get older (I just turned 40 this year) TIME truly is your most valuable asset. It makes sense to you in your 20 and 30′s but it really hits home now, especially having lost a dear and close friend at 39 to cancer last year.

I protect my time like a hawk, and so should Perry, Dennis and everyone else.

The lousy thing with time is that you cannot buy more!

I think your answer to him was right on. And I think he should learn to use spellcheck.

Perry,

I couldn’t agree with you more. You could probably cut your “lunch” invitations down by 75% by just stipulating that business/marketing topics are forbidden.

What is euphemistically described as lunch is just a request for a free consult OR the ability to tie themselves with your brand (“you know, I was having lunch with Perry the other day and blah, blah, blah”).

The economy may be the worst we’ve seen in awhile, but “will work for food” isn’t quite universal yet.

Give what you want and sell what you want. The only judgment that ultimately matters on whether you apportioned it correctly is– well– you know.

Love Perry, his perspective and his advice (fee and free).

Hated the Thanksgiving message.

Hi Perry,

I think we can all agree that a little tactfulness might have been more appropriate, but then again how else would Dennis have learned the difference between sales and consulting?

Thanks to you I stopped giving free advice two months ago. In one of your newsletters earlier this year you discussed this issue. You even recommended we copy your Marketing Consultation Request Form and use it to start getting in the habit of refusing to give free advice. I hate to admit it, but it took me four months to take your advice on that one.

The day I started using your form (and stopped giving free advice) was the day I called back two prospects I had given advice to just to follow up. I was blown away by the fact that neither one had the decency to return my call. That day my friend was the turning point.

Today everybody has to pay $495 to talk to me and I don’t return unsolicited phone calls or e-mails from non-clients… Sound familiar?

It took me a long time to finally “get it” but it really works. In essence what you’re doing is “disqualifying” the tire kickers from the serious prospects.

Perry you were instrumental in this breakthrough in my consulting business. The value you deliver is unsurpassed so stick to your guns!

Keep up the great work and have a wonder Thanksgiving.

Frank

Perry, you really need to charge more and stop with the people who want everything for free, Im a graphic designer and webmaster and I get people all day wanting free shit, remember this, there are less illustrator’s then neurologists (brain doctors) in this world, so should I start charging 50,000 per project, I wish I could but wack ass sites like “getafreelancer.com” allow people to keep low balling our services so low, that seems impossible to get to the 100,000 mark.

Enjoy your Thanksgiving, family. and food.

I enjoyed reading the cause and effect, and the comments. A few too many, but point made, you have the clients, and the cash.

I hope soon to be able to afford your services and expertise.

Everyone has access to spell-checkers, which check the spelling and grammar, so why do people continue to write embarrassing e-mails?

Let’s Make Some Money!

Thanks

There’s a great old story about a company who was having trouble with a large generator at their factory – they worked and worked on it but just couldn’t get it to start. Finally, they called in a specialist to help.

A few hours later a beat up old pickup pulled up out in front of the company offices and an old man got out and walked into the building. He was directed to the inoperable machine and looked it over. After a minute, he reached into his toolbag and removed a ball-peen hammer and gave a sharp tap on the side of the generator. Instantly the machine sprang to life.

A few days later the company manager received an invoice from the specialist for his work and was shocked to read that the old man had billed the company $2002 for his services. Concerned, he called the specialist and asked him to explain his rationale for the bill. After all, he reminded the old specialist, you were only here for a few minutes and all you did was hit the generator once with a hammer.

The specialist replied that for his time and effort he billed accordingly out at $2. However, he went on, the $2000 charge was for knowing just where to hit the machine.

Every month I read Perry’s newsletter and the insight and advice I walk away with makes me feel like I’m taking advantage of him each time.(all this for $30 a month?)

While $700 plus for an hour of somebody’s time may seem extravagant, there are a number of other values being factored into that price. It’s not that single hour that’s being paid for but the massive number of hours leading up to that meeting. Assuming Perry is like most entrepreneurs I know, his life isn’t one of casualness and leisure in which he waits for the world to beat a path to his door. Instead he is constantly in motion learning new things and applying them to methods which he can share with his ‘team’. Likewise, the value of that hour has less to do with the cost and more to do with the worth. If my single hour with Perry offers me advice and insight that allows me to make (or save) $10,000 in my future business dealings then it’s pretty much the best investment I can make.

I get that Dennis saw it as a point of greed but think that he should also recognize that Perry had earned the right to sell his time for whatever the market will bear. After all, he’s spent a lot of time already learning just where to hit the machine with a hammer.

I understand where you’re coming from Perry and I have discovered one thing from this forum. I certainly cannot afford you. Best of luck!

I’ve been a writer for decades. I’ve given free advice freely to others for decades. I made a discovery: When you give free advice, people put about that much value on it. Now people pay me a nice fee to give what I used to give for free.

Michael Masterson has commented about similar experience. Part of the problem is the nature of the Internet.

Internet denizens for years have been conditioned to think everything should be free. And you’re a jerk if you don’t give yours for free is their usual opinion. Never mind the many years of toil and labor learning what you know and the toil and labor they can avoid by paying what it’s worth to get what they need.

Does the guy really make $100K/year in sales? If so, he should know better. I doubt he’d work for a company that didn’t pay commissions.

I’ve found huge value in what I’ve gained from you, and appreciate it.

No complaints here…

I love it!!! I’ve been a consultant for over 10 years battling with this along the way and I completely agree with Perry. Hey Perry, I’m going to steal some of what you said to craft my own! ;} Go get em!!!

Psychological Terrorism – The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Perry, you are a very talented marketer. I have been on your list for MANY years under various emails and purchased many of your products. You dispense valuable advice and people should pay for that.

You have gone from the Dilbert cube to the “Top of the World” and you have EVERY right to be proud of your accomplishments. You have EVERY right to decide how to dole out every moment of your life.

I agree with Frederico Vila Verde above. The issue is not whether you should get paid for your time. It is in the way you deliver your message, the subtle conveyances in the message itself.

You do sometimes radiate arrogance and a superior attitude whether you intend to or not. A simple rewording of the message would seriously fix the entire situation and you could save yourself from losing potential customers.

The way you communicated to Dennis and the others about having lunch was a form of psychological terrorism — psychological terrorism being those subtle forms of put downs that have the effect of making people who receive the message feel inferior or not worthy of your attention, kindness or generosity….

I am certain, having been on your list for a number of years and for also having invited you to lunch myself at one point earlier this year — you did not mean it this way.

Having been in that situation myself I understand how Dennis ended up feeling the way he did. When I asked you to lunch (because I am in the Chicago area) I did NOT ask you out to lunch to pump you for your advice.

I invited you out to lunch to THANK YOU for all your advice over the years and to share with you some insights as one of your customers to help make your business even better. I did not get to express that because you jumped to the assumption that I wanted your advice. In fact, behind the offer that was shot down before it could be delivered…I going to GIVE you a live in person customer survey where you could ask me anything about my experiences and get free in depth feedback (in fact I was going to pay for lunch, so I guess that means I was going to pay you to get free information from me from the inside as a LONG TIME customer and coincidentally a professional marketer who gets paid big money by Fortune 100 companies to analyze, critique and improve online customer experiences).

I haven’t stewed about your response as Dennis has, but I understand how your response may have been interpreted as a subtle signal >> “Hey, buddy you’re a nobody. I only have lunch with nobodys if they pay me $700.”

Putting together a friendly response like Joey said above is definitely an improvement:

“Remember the little people (you once counted yourself among them) and don’t take them for granted. At least tell Dennis (and ANYONE who asks you) you are flattered and would love to spend time with him (them), but at the moment you are booked and busy… but, he could jump in line by becoming a client…”

This tweak in approach will make you a lot more fans and may even reveal opportunities you may not know were being presented otherwise.

I continue to appreciate your valuable insights in the online arena and all the free advice you DO dispense.

All my best to you and your family. Happy Thanksgiving.

Perry,

simply ask Dennis how much Kobe Bryant would charge him to learn how to play basketball like he does, or how much Tiger Woods would charge him for golf advice…Unless they were personal friends, they would not give him the time of day!
It’s well known that they are both very generous when it comes to contributing to worthy causes.
No free lunches, bully for you!

LOL! -If the man is making $100.000 in 12 months, why is he in such big need to milk something for the price of lunch?

You know what else bothers me about this? The fact that people can’t handle the truth. Many are saying that Perry should have used a bit more tact. What was so wrong with what he said?!

Honesty, candor and directness are gifts. It’s telling the other person, I think you’re a grown up and I’m going to honor you with nothing but my truth. But people don’t want truth anymore. They wanted to be pacified, coddled, lied to, even. And yet they’ll bitch and moan about being conned, and manipulated and tricked and lied to by marketers. Well, then for God’s sakes, start being grown-ups and not little babies whining for pablum. Truth is becoming a lost art and character trait with game-playing taking its place. And it’s exactly because there are so many unwilling to hear it.

Perry,

I COMPLETELY believe that you should be receiving $700+ an hour. I am constantly amazed at how you just help me “get it”.

I am just an upstart and can’t afford you at the moment, given the economy. But when I can, you will be the first person I seek.

You offer MORE than enough free advice to those of us who are seeking information. This guy was completely out of line. If you got into the business of selling your extremely valuable advice for the price of lunch, you would obviously be in the hole!!!!

He appears to be one that just enjoys making waves.

Thanks Perry for all the insightful tips you provide. You are nothing short of an inspiration, as you emails are both compelling and well spoken.

As I mentioned before, when I can afford it, you are my “Go To Guy”.

Thats great! To me its simple.

Why do you charge 700+?

Because you can! lol

or how abut the 20% that would pay 1400.00 per hour.

I don’t think that is greedy either.

When you ask and they all say NO- then you know the top pay per hour.

Its nice to know the true value!

I have been in business for years now and I agree with Perry.

There is ALWAYS somebody wanting something for free.

I have people who bang on my store door relentlessly, even if there is a HUGE closed sign out front.

They could say I’m “mean” to not let them in, but honestly, it is NOT my job in life to give every Tom, Dick and Harry what they want when they want it!

I started this business to provide a good life for my family.

We give back to others in many (large tips, family loans, etc).

I include free stuff in my shipments/emails/blogs/websites all the time.

Perry is absolutely right.

And sometimes you “have” to vent publicly because it is very upsetting for someone to treat you like this.

GRRR..

It makes me SO mad when people are rude like this to business owners.

We practically give up our LIVES to grow and run our businesses and snide, rude comments from people who are CLUELESS really is just uncalled for.

It is hurtful.

I have been upset several times with suppliers or companies, but I NEVER am rude to them.

I politely tell them about the problem IF at all.

Sorry you had to deal with this guy, Perry.

Hello:
I cannot put a value on the information that you have shared with those of us who need it. I
have learned so much from you and haven’t had to pay for much of it. Thank you for sharing your hard-won knowledge with those of us who are just starting out and need all the help we can get. You’re completely within your right to charge for your time. People who expect something for nothing are the greedy ones. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Margaret.

If you read the general thust of ALL the comments made I think you should be proud of the quality of readership you have Perry. There is a vein of humility and common sense that seems to course through the whole conversation. You should be proud of yourself. Well done.

Everyone has the right to charge whatever he likes and Perry’s information, although out of reach to many, is very valuable.

But, I think it is better to be political sometimes to avoid being criticized, which in turn could bring down a business.

First of all, to clear up a situation:You have full right to charge for your time and work-its your life and a way of earning for living,even more i have read you give money to Africa people about i’m thinking as well/ not able to give help myself yet/
Who is guilty?
second
Nobody can just call you/never met you/to dinner or lunch ,in order to receive some advice of you/or a short lecture.
To say:i charge for my time/if you asked to a dinner/ however makes a feeling of discomfort.
Ordinarily,business people meet each other take a conversation and make new connections and contracts,all during a lunch.
But,i say businessmen not anyone out of hundreds of people.
third:you charge for your scheduled time in a determined place/your office for example/
I think here, just happened a misunderstanding.

Dear Perry

I think we both know Dennis would be too “smart” to listen to you anyway Perry – and certainly too potty mouthed to ask to dinner. Probably the sort of smartness means he doesn’t value other people’s time and certainly hasn’t been reading your newsletters or listening to your material.

Dennis hasn’t “twigged” that you are NOT “John D Rockefeller” – you don’t have mass of factories and workers to live off – you feed your wife and kids from your fees for giving advice.

Some people do recognise your value though . . . Certainly anything from Planet Perry is located, bought read, absorbed and tested by me . . my kids read it too – good education. I did your “blue” course and got a lot of good stuff straight from you (and your merry men) while trying not to hog the phone line!

In the direction of planet Dennis I did I try for “equity-based” advice from you – I was in a position where I was talking to some of the product leader level people at Google (One level below Brin and Page) about Google’s possible acquisition of some IP. I had and would have happily traded 20% of the equity for some Perry help – so I can easily see that “Perry experience” might be worth six or even seven figures a day – not a measly $750 an hour.

Nevertheless I respected 100% your right to be interested or not – or even reply to message about something like that. Maybe you get offers like this every day (no doubt to be filed with the *viagra* and the whatsit extension emails??) – or quite likely you doesn’t want to be seen by the Google guys brokering so other non adwords related deals.

All I can say is feel free to tell cheapskate clients this when they moan about your fees.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving (whatever that is – I’m in the UK) with your family!

Cheers
Mark

Taylor calls Perry’s response “psychological terrorism” and defines it as “subtle forms of put downs that have the effect of making people who receive the message feel inferior or not worthy of your attention, kindness or generosity…”

To call define any kind of so-called “terrorism” as “subtle” is just plain asinine, reprehensible, and a lie.

Even if you have been mainstream media brainwashed about the post 9-11 “war on terror”, that’s no excuse for this preposterous use of that word.

Further, Perry’s response, just like Taylor’s, mine, and others, has absolutely no power to “make” any person receiving the message to feel one way or another. The fact that Taylor (and others here) falsely ascribe that power to Perry’s message reveals more about them than their complaints do about Perry.

Hey Perry,

I enjoy your emails and like the way you think. It is strictly your prerogative to either go to lunch and let them pick your brain on a probono basis or set up a consulting meeting on a fee basis. There is no reason for anyone to accuse you of greed since you already share a lot of your material without charge. If you need more information than that I will have to send you my rate schedule myself.

All the best and Happy Thanksgiving.

Jim

Perry,

Perhaps you could have used a little tact.

As in baseball, there are those players who love to take a minute and give their autograph and there are players who walk away.

I was considering ordering your products, but not now. There are many of your competitors who would be glad to take that extra minute.

Hear that? It’s the sound of me clicking on the unsubscribe button.

I really thought about this and wonder, how many of the comments are for you and how many comments are not for you. We all know that you are in the information business, but if those people have paid for a session that night then my thoughts are, why did you not use a little more kindness and maybe just have said that they needed to call your office. You have , in my eyes, made a bad decision to be arrogant to people that have just paid you for some information. You have just broken a rule in business that might follow you. Most of the time I can defend what actions that most people have taken, but Perry you have to know this is not going to enhance your reputation. You can come down much faster than you go up, so when people ask those type questions, use more tact and know that a lot of people do not understand what they are asking for. Most people are just fascinated with knowledge and just want to hear more. Go back to the day you left you real job and think how it would have felt if someone would have been that rude to you. Money is not evil, but the way money makes a lot of people act is evil. I know you justified your actions in your own mind, but there is a larger picture. I hope my spelling is correct for all that wrote about the poor guys spelling. Bob C

Anybody who would pay 750.00 an hour for a consultation is either an idiot, desperate, or is already extremely wealthy. However, what Mr. Marshall chooses to charge is his own prerogative. If he can get that kind of money, then all I can say is more power to him and I wish I could be as lucky. People need to do their own due diligence to determine the value.

If a panhandler comes up to you on the street and asks you for some spare change or a couple of bucks, you decide whether or not you give it to them. After all, it’s your money.

If you’re a professional — like a doctor or lawyer or marketing consultant — and someone comes up to you and asks you to spare your time, once again, you decide whether or not you give it to them. Because, after all, it’s your time. And in this case, we’re not talking spare change or a couple of bucks, we’re talking hundreds or even thousands of dollars in value… it’s time you never get back.

Things work best when we get to choose who we give our own time and money to.

If we panhandle — ask for someone’s time offering little or nothing in return — and they grant it, we should be grateful. If they say no, we shouldn’t be resentful. After all, it’s their time to give.

David Blaise
Sledgehammer Marketing

Get our free report on the MVPs of Marketing at
http://www.sledgehammermarketing.com

Dave thank you! The reason I used the term Psychological Terrorism was to have my post read. You just proved words matter…

…including the subtlety of how they are delivered. Dennis was offended by words, the way they were delivered and Perry’s unintended meaning…the same way my words apparently offended you.

Are you kidding me?
Your talking about your TIME. Another guy is worried about spelling, and yet another wants to teach us supply and demand. Perry, you ARE greedy, simple truth. I am guessing you have done very well for yourself. Good, good for you, nothing wrong with that. But how much is enough? Do you or your family NEED for anything. Probably not. I on the other hand have to live on disability checks and hear my phone ring all day from bill collectors. I have cancer, which took away one kidney. I also have blood diseases( Coronary)which have to date kept me from getting back to work at a job I hate.I am a manager for Home Depot and I have the privilage of working 65-70 hrs a week for a lousy 56 grand a year and all the family time I can loose. I have been fleeced by the Berrytree, the Richjerk, and others because I did not know what I was doing. I could have used some FREE help. No matter now as I am broke and could not do anything even if I knew how. Point is, even Bill Gates is a philanthroper. You could afford to give some free value and you know it. Your no better than the CEO,s with thier golden parachutes. You have 5 million you want ten etc… Remember, you made this a public forum, so none of the none of your business crap. Give some back!
Bob Layte

The reason we have problems in society is because of attitudes belonging to people like Dennis, and that is: WANTING SOMETHING FOR NOTHING.

The guy should think a bit before opening his mouth and accusing a guy like Perry of being greedy. If what Perry did is greedy, then we should all be “greedy” and the world (and our wallets, and those who benefit from our generosity) would be all the better for it.

Well said Perry! I work with small businesses doing web design and online marketing. I also run a computer repair service.

Every time I am at any type of gathering of people, if the talk turns to computer related topics, I end up with someone wanting my to “take a look” at their computer. After saying “yes” too many times, I quickly learned not to do ‘pro bono’ work.

If you are in the business of consulting, you shouldn’t give your ‘consulting’ away for free. Just like if you are a butcher, you shouldn’t give your meat away for free.

Perry,

I very much respect your knowledge and respect the fact that you made this public. Your “inventory” is your time and you covered that well. Time is something you can’t get back either once it is lost. It is not about being greedy, but being fair and honest. If you do this for one person everyone expects it, and you create a double standard. Good for you for standing up for what is right. Time is a precious commodity. Way to stand up for yourself! Keep on bringing the great content!

Paul

Response to Tom Chechatka.
There is no need to criticise the Brits. We have been drowning in a cesspit of socialism for the past 10 years and don’t need any flak.
There is no nation on earth that hasn’t greatly benefitted from being part of the British Empire. Problems occur when you hand control back to the ‘locals’.
Who are the controllers in the City of London? As I recall, Tony Blair was often described as Dubya’s poodle.
Who is your aristocracy – the Kennedys and the Clintons?
Regarding British behaviour in Africa – who massacred your Red Indian population?
Don’t blame the Brits for today’s problems on how the world was 232 years ago!
Ian

Hi Perry,

This sounds like the music star’s show and the after hours dinner party.

I feel your position is probably quite reasonable, and everyone who’s got a major ongoing career success to deal with will have a different take on how they themselves share their time out that is right for them. Where I feel a trick has been overlooked is the audience didn’t know in advance. What a number of hi profile people do is get their ‘PR’ person to forward a communication to speaker organisers to set out some light ground rules in advance, so reducing the chance of such disagreements. Then if the redoubtable Dennis type does appear again having been told what to expect by the organisers they haven’t a leg to stand on.

Its HOW you say it.

You guys mentioning his english are the same people paying perry for your time.

LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE AND STOP NIT PICKING. God. No wonder you people cant figure out google.

Perry could have worded it nicer. Plain and simple. I am surprised a guy like this doesnt have better people skills.

maybe too many idiots paying 750 an hour, instead of learning for themselves. LIKE PERRY DID.

B I G P I C T U R E

LOOK AT IT NOW!

Perceptions are often misperceptions. Misperceptions can, as in this case, come about from the lack of complete information. Adding fuel to the fire is the emotional trigger of money/economy in these days and times. It is how we individually respond to the current economic conditions that makes a difference both personally and publicly. We can whine, worry, and complain or we can take whatever steps are necessary to learn how to handle ourselves, including purchasing information or advice to enhance our businesses and our success.

Some while ago, I had reason to hire an attorney. I guarantee you that I paid for every second that was spent on my case by the lawyer and the legal staff. The lawyer even called on me asking me for my services. I provided the services but I did not charge this attorney. Let me tell you, it was the last time I did not charge for my services.

When a businessperson provides a service, I think it borders on insanity to not charge for the service. It is not, as some people have suggested to me, a form of good will and advertising. Instead, it makes me look needy and makes the free-loader look greedy. Today, I charge what I charge without hesitation. This doesn’t make me greedy. It makes me a businessperson

I also support those in need. How and when I do that is no one’s business.

Thanks for your wisdom and the willingness to make it available for everyone to obtain.

Perry, you didn’t need to give this character the courtesy of a reply, but I may have done so also, but not quite as “gently” as you did. Anyway, I know it feels good to get it off your chest.

God bless, and have a great Thanksgiving and a wonderful Christmas Season!!

I always enjoy your eMails,–JTG

You probably could have addressed the situation a little better. I know I would be offended if I invested in a workshop or event, and then got a ridiculous upsell after offering a kind gesture to one of the speakers. I’ve seen ball players at the stadium hangout for over an hour after a game signing autographs. Although not all players do it, it is a nice courtesy and gains a lot of respect from those who admire them. I am sure you are well aware that ball players have many, many, fans.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to sell your one-on-one services. I’m just saying that handling an offer a little more delicately will gain you more respect, and potentially a client that will spend a lot of one-on-one time with you in the future which will end up making you money instead of someone calling you a greedy bastard. AND avoiding an unnecessary blog post altogether.

The problem with people who want things for free, want to ‘pick’ someone’s brains or try to be a Perry Marshall or anyone else is that they are too lazy to do the work it takes to be a Perry Marshall and think that if they just ‘pick a Perry Marshall brain’ that they will discover all the secrets it takes to be a Perry Marshall; and have short cuts to success instead of having to do everything that Perry did to get to where he is today.

The truth is that no matter how many blue prints of Perry Marshall is given to anyone, no one is going to be a Perry Marshall. You are you, and if you can’t or won’t develop yourself then it’s your fault. And, if you aren’t willing to pay for Perry’s advice then that is your loss because he is actually offering his time for a fee. Try to get a movie star, doctor, lawyer, Donald Trump or anyone other professional to sit with you one-on-one and listen to you whine for an hour for $700. I don’t think it’s going to happen. There are reasons for it.

Someone like Perry Marshall who actually takes the time to even answer a freeloader, regardless if it’s in the right or wrong tone is to be commended for just taking his time to answer someone who has little concern or consideration for Perry’s time and just has the “What’s in it for me” thinking. Most successful people wouldn’t even acknowledge this type of thing. But in my opinion Perry sees something of value here and has chosen to display this type of thinking not because he wanted to belittle this guy, but to show that no matter what you do for anyone there is always going to be someone who will let it be known that you are not doing enough for them. And, in my opinion the amount of free information Perry gives away for free shows a guy who gives back to society, not because he has to but because he is philanthropic as most successful people are. You would know that if you took a little time out of your life to read something by someone like Norman Vincent Peale. Your response is quite a “tell” about you.

Greed? Greed? The only people who even talk about greed are the ones who can’t and won’t work as hard as those who make enough money to be called greedy.

Frankly, many of the so called greedy (or, successful, let’s be honest) are more giving than the name callers will ever be in their life. Why does anyone successful owe anyone who isn’t? I’ll never understand that. Most people who are successful did what you won’t do to get there. And, your thinking is that they owe you? What? Why?

I’m sick of losers who try to win the lottery or “pay $1 to get a scratch-off ticket that will garner them 50 million dollars” so they can spend the rest of their lives doing nothing but bragging about their lotto winnings or, how they coerced a Perry Marshall out of their hard earned knowledge.

Divvy up mentality is disgusting and will get you absolutely nothing in life – especially anything from a philanthropist – which is what you are looking for, you pitiful little man who wants it all for free.

Think about it. You want information from Perry Marshall. Who wants information from you? Who will even take you to lunch to pick your brain? I say no one and assuredly no one that matters. You know why? Because you don’t have anything to offer, nor, do you have what it takes to be a major role model for anyone so you cut down those who do have something to offer because you can’t get it for free and you can’t have a Perry Marshall mind. And, that is the very reason you want to pick Perry’s mind, so you can be as good as Perry. Well, maybe you could even be better than Perry if you just believed in yourself and pushed as hard as Perry has to learn something.

So why don’t you work around the clock, give up time with your family and friends, work weekends and nights, take major risks, losses and wins and do what the majority of others are not willing to do to be successful then you can start charging for your time, because there is no doubt in my mind that you are the type of person will not be so willing to give out your life’s work and hard learned lessons that made you successful – for free.

You think there is a secret to success? There is and you really need to pay for those secrets in blood, sweat and tears, but more importantly in belief in yourself. After you do that you will come to learn and understand that whether your product is a toy made in China that you had to take a lot of time to find the supplier of, work with pricing and risk of importing it and every other nuance for selling that type of thing, or you decide to charge for advice based upon your blood, sweat and tears that others are willing to pay for then you will sit quietly humbled and realize that if there is a man with info that you badly want, you will be happily willing to pay for that commodity because you will know what it took to get that commodity.

Stop being a cry baby and pick up a book, study, take some risks, update your thinking and put some of your own effort and mind muscle to work like the Perry Marshalls of life do. And, pay for his product just like you’d expect someone to pay for something you were selling. No body owes you anything but you owe Perry an apology.

There is a saying that a famous musician has that fits you, “You can copy me, but you still have no identity.” –Marilyn Manson

Why feel guilty about putting a value on your time? It has taken you many years and at your own cost to acquire the knowledge that you have. Knowledge that people value otherwise they wouldn’t pay the cost to attend your seminars or buy your books etc. Otherwise they wouldn’t value it enough to try and get it out of you. But therein lies the contradiction in terms. Yes, to ask for one on one over lunch etc, suggests that they do indeed value it…but are cheapskates, arrogent enough to assume that they can get it out of you for nothing. Methinks the greedy one is not Perry. As a person who is learning more and more about putting a value on my knowledge I applaud you Perry. Good on you mate!

Perry,

I think you were very nice to dignify the email with a response. You could have just “graded” his poor grammar and sent his note back to him with a C-.

RO

Dennis –

I think you meant “Hi” not “high”.

Perry is not the reason for the failed economy.
Rather, it is due to Entitlement, clearly something you are familiar with.

There was a corporation that had problems with all of the computers not working in their company; they just stopped. So, they called a computer tech to come and fix them. The tech pressed a couple of buttons and fixed them all in 1 minute. He left and sent the corporation a bill for $1000.00. The corporation asked why it cost so much if it only took one minute to fix them. Tech guy said, “It took one minute to fix them and 10 years to learn how to.”

Hey Perry,

Great post. I’ve been following you for years and also paid “good money” to attend your 80/20 seminar in May. That’s how I got to meet you and get valuable advice.

I think your approach may turn some people off, but it’s a time management necessity for you. This guy can’t fathom the demand for Perry vs. the supply of Perry curves and that it requires raising the price on your time for you to function.

Keep up the good work!

OK…so it is perfectly acceptable to go up to someone you don’t know and expect them to give you something of extreme value in return for the cost of a coffee and grilled salmon salad?

I don’t think so!!

My response would not have been as measured as Perry’s. I would likely have said:-

My hourly standard rates are $700+. Since you are wishing to ask me for advice during my leisure time, the fee is $1500 per hour. We both know the value is far greater than that. Oh, and I assume you will leave a great tip for the staff?

lol

First off, I’d like to say I am a complete “newbie” to internet marketing.

Last week I emailed Perry requesting a half-hour PAID telephone consultation in order to get started online “the right way”. I received a prompt, polite and *F.REE* response from Perry’s PA suggesting I try 2 other programs (no affiliate links included) before spending any money with Perry’s consulting service.

I thought I’d sooner get free food in an Indian restaurant than see a Internet Marketer turn away business (you need to be English to understand…)! I guess I was wrong – Perry is clearly more interested in adding value to his potential customers than grabbing pennies.

Oh yeah, I have a whole genre of mp3′s in my iTunes library dedicated to adwords, who do you think contributes 99% of the material to this *F.REE* stuff? That’s right: Dennis Whathisname – whoops sorry – Perry Marshall.

Way to go Perry (token Americanism thrown in for levity)!

PS. What do I have to do to get you to take ma monehhhh?

PPS. Dennis et al, you can take me out for some fish ‘n’ chips anytime as long as I get to grill you about how to get free stuff. Any takers?

Peace!

He’s just jealous (& probably financially hurting).

You’re doing great work, ignore him.

Cheers

Well said Perry. Dennis you need to go back to school. You must have flunked in grammar.
Perry if you start giving away the stuff I’ve already paid for I’m gonna be *pissed*!

Hi Perry,
Yes I clearly understand both points of this argument.
However, I read one reply that I believe fits the most.
It’s not what you say but how you say it and to further expand;
“How someone understands what was said”
With that said keep up the great work Perry and don’t let people get underyour skin.
It’s a waist of time and energy.

I can see both sides. At first, I agreed with Dennis, you sounded mighty greedy. My mother used to always pay whoever did any work for her – mowing the grass, raking, painting something, etc. She would always overpay them. Much more than it was worth. I would never let my sons take her money. I feel like they should do that out of decency and love for their grandmother, not for profit. I think Dennis is coming from a similar place.

But after reading your response, I can see your side clearly. All of your points are valid. If you went to lunch with everyone who asked….

Maybe you could have a more graceful answer ready when it happens again – Gee, I’d love to, but I am just worn out with shop-talk right now! Or, I’ve love to, but tomorrow is one of my few chances this week to spend some time with my wife. Maybe you could call me later this week and and we could set up a consultation?

Something like that would say that you expect to be paid, but in a nicer way.

That said, if this is a ploy to get more reader, it worked on me…I will be checking out your site.

I can see Perry’s position pretty well. In fact, its something I’d probably do. I had an inkling that Perry is probably an active philanthropist as all good entrepreneurs are.

I liked what Ronnie said – Customer’s aren’t your friends. If Dennis was a close friend…things would be different. But Dennis isn’t. This is business.

As for charging for advice – Perry’s right. Its very irritating/enraging/infuriating when you give advice or information that you KNOW is worth…THOUSANDS…or TENS OF THOUSANDS….not to mention an ounce or 2 of emotional involvement and your time to someone who…doesn’t use it.

Its an indirect way of saying “Yeah, I took you for a smuck because you gave me all your time and this free stuff…and now I’m not gona use it.” Now he may not actually do that, or mean it – but sometimes you can feel that way. I know I have

And sometimes when you give free advice, somehow people get this idea that you can “debate” the free advice…and their opinion is better than yours (even though its the other way around results wise).

Or worse – they just wana use your free advice just to get an ego stroke or to improve their “self image” to themselves (by trying to reject yours…). “Oh this can’t possibly work, no thats not how you do it- my way is better” (Even though his way got him broke)

Result: your help isn’t valued as much (if at all).

I’ve had that happen to me once – and I never let it happen again.

Sorta reminds me of how Gary sent a check back to one of his clients telling him “Just because you paid me, doesn’t entitle you to waste my time”

There are times when you need to use the sledgehammer. Sometimes…not using tact can be a good thing. Its very useful for setting the record straight. Especially, if there was a personal attack.

Now Dennis may or may not have acted upon free advice or free information from you. But it is something of a cheap shot to be directly ATTACKING you. He shouldn’t have equated lawyers or Rockerfella as somehow being better than you.

When you “attack” someone personally…well its sorta like walking into a lion’s den. You can’t do it without expecting to be eaten alive.

When you charge for advice, when you charge for a consultation especially at $725 an hour – in a way – you guarantee they’ll make results. Because they will value your advice that both of you know works. And sometimes its the ONLY way to communicate “Hey, this is important, this is valuable, this is something you need to use – now”

If his plan was to invite you to lunch…and then milk you for free advice…that’s also a cheap shot. Its an indirect way of stealing. It makes you also feel like a smuck, being used and then when its all done, disposed of. And then probably not use the advice.

All else fails – its just annoying to all hell.

At the end of the day – your time is your life. You’re free to choose however you want to spend your life.

No man has any obligation over your money or time.

Only you choose how its spent.

Anyway – Happy Thanks Giving

PS
David, he looks better clean shaven =D

I think it is grred at its best to charge that kind of money. The old uneducated man was right on with his comments though.

Once we’ve disposed of the “Perry should work for all for free” argument can we move onto the beard please – who one who prefers the clean shaven Perry rather than the goateed guru . . . . . Laura gets the casting vote of course . . .

. . I suppose it could be worse – how about the “Jack Sparrow” look Perry?? . .

Perry,

I’ve read a few of your emails and, quite frankly, I can say that you are a good communicator, straight forward and a straight shooter.

I suggest that if ever this ranting rebel Dennis contacts you again, just say:

Your invitation will cost you: $5.00

My time: $720.00 per hour

And say no more.

All the best,

Art

HI Perry I have read the letter from Dennis and most of your response. So far I have not purchased anything from you but each week or so I get emails from you with bits of FREE information. I understand you are practicing Attraction Marketing and that as you have such a large list you have worked very hard and spent lots of your time and money to build your business.

Even though I think you did not have to justify not going to lunch or even that you said anything about your hourly rate. I liked your response. Also this is a very reasonable rate for someone with your high level of knowledge.

First and foremost at an event you are running your business and rightly so you are there to earn a living for yourself and your family.Why should some who could get close enough to you to invite you to lunch be able to put themselves in a position to get more information and FREE information then the other probably hundreds who have possibly scraped together the money to attend the event.

Perry you have every right to value your own time.

Blessings Jenny

I am really missing the point of this posting unless the message is that any criticism will be met with complete self-righteous logic. My experience is that if something really triggers me, chances are there is something for me to look at.

Thank you for the emails you send to me. I have a few comments on the letter and the events surrounding it. First off, sometimes it is not what we say that is wrong, but how we say it. Obviously, the man hit a nerve. I think you need to go over the conversation and find a better wording for your response. I understand that your time is valuable and you should not be expected to give it away. Again, I truly believe it was your cocky response the man was responding to. Second, someone who writes an email and doesn’t proof read it, has a problem. That is not very professional. The man should be very embarrassed at that. Third, in you letter you mentioned AIDS orphans in Africa. That is very sad. Why don’t people mention our own children in foster care here who are either orphans or whose parents are in jail or drug users? What about our school teachers who have to buy supplies for their classrooms because of budget cuts, or all the citizens who cannot get medical care? Anyway, that comment of yours hit my nerve. Why can’t we take care of our country also? It is no one’s business what you do with your money, but you brought it up. Sorry – I think I got off the subject. I am just surprised that someone as important as you believe you are took the time to respond to the man let alone ask your readers to give you their opinion. This must be costing you a lot of time and a lot of money!

Perry

Time is money but courtesy is free.

Did you have to be so rude?

We do not need arrogance to improve this world. It was also unkind to post that message with the spelling errors, as if to belittle your correspondent.

In my career I’ve met leading physicians, scientists and politicians from around the world and the most accomplished among them were also the most modest. Your work is valuable and has helped me progress – but stop taking yourself so seriously.

Perry, you are ethically and morally justified in charging a fee for your time. From experience, I can honestly say that people who want your time for free don’t value it, and those who are willing to pay for it get the most out of it. By giving away your time to those who are least likely to benefit from it, you would be squandering the only resource you have that cannot be increased or replaced. Kudos to you for valuing your own time and knowledge.

We have been subscribing to Perry’s methods for some time now and we can assure everyone that Perry is not charging enough!

Cheers
Gift Vouchers Australia
http://www.adrenalin.com.au

Back in the day, when Dennis was young and beautiful, gasoline cost maybe 25 cents a gallon; a street car ride cost 5 cents; an ice cream cone cost 5 cents. Today, gas costs up to $4.00 a gallon; there are no street cars, and an ice cream cone can cost $5.00. Older people have trouble adapting to this price increase. A $28,000 house built in 1956 now sells for $450,000. Wow. That is a stretch. Older people get angry about this enormous increase in cost and vent their rage in different ways. A $700 consultation is about worth $70 in 1956. So what is the big deal? Dennis, $100,000 is worth about $10,000 back in 1956. So you better take and apply what you get from Perry so you can make $500,000 a year and not be so pinched for money. Regards, Monte

Perry, you definitely caused quite a stir with this one. lol

I’ve been on your list for nearly 3 and 1/2 years, and that’s the longest period of time I’ve been on any list.
You consistently give free, valuable information, and I am sincerely grateful.

I can understand why you feel the way you do about this and I can respect that.
What I don’t understand is why this had to be posted for everyone to see.

I don’t agree with Dennis at all, with how he perceived you to be. I would think that if I consistently made over 100k per year, as Dennis stated he does, then he surely could afford to set up an appointment with you for the $725 per hour fee. So who is being greedy Dennis? Perry doesn’t owe you anything, does he?

Perry, I would like to be in your position, financially, just to have this problem, or can you even call this a problem?

Go back a few years when you were still in “Dilberts Cube,” how would you have reacted to the situation at that time?

Anyway… this should have been kept between Perry and Dennis.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone,

Randy

WOW! What a hornets nest of reaction!
I am a great believer in the fact the market decides whether someone is value for money or not, If you are too expensive then your business will dry up despite the best marketing. Perry is obviously very good at what he does and the market also agrees. Perry is number one in his field. Consider for a moment if you were the number 1 brain surgeon in the World what would you charge? Would you do a few operations for free at lunchtime? mmmm
I am sure though that if you became aware of an orphan who had a month to live in a third world country whose plight was so special and heartbreaking you would help, although you may not crave publicity, the reward would be beyond money.
Reading between the lines I think Perry does his bit for humanity whilst remaining a successful business man and doing his best for his family.
Keeping ones humility whilst doing all this is the secret to real happiness.
As for Dennis, you are the customer and you are free to walk away and buy elsewhere but i guess you will keep coming back and looking in this shop window and wondering what if i had ?????

Andrew
England.

PS I don’t know Perry and have never met him…yet anyway but i am just starting his book and enjoy the mails i get and am new to web marketing. If you really read the mails and think about them we have all had a free lunch already, or was that just an appertiser and the main meal is to come?

PPS no one please pick up on my spelling as we only use the Queens English here which is sometimes different from yours.

Hello Perry,

I just want to say I was at that meeting in Chicago where you provided tremendous value for everyone that attended that evening.

In fact you went way over the stated time frame by several hours. (I hope your wife did not send you to the dog house that night).

And this was all done at no additional charge to any one who chose to stay and receive further insights from you.

I just want to say that I was very blessed that night by all the great content you provided!

I stayed till the very end of the session and I had a long ride home that night. As I was driving home I thanked God that I had the pleasure to sit in and hear you live.

It was such a joy to meet someone in the internet world who operates out of a high level of honesty and integrity!!

Keep up the great work that you do! Thanks for over delivering not only that night but all the information that you provide on a regular basis.

Praying that your business will increase a thousand fold so you can bless even more aids orphans!

You, your family and all your readers have a blessed Thanksgiving holiday!

Ron

For someone who is not already a client of yours to expect such is crazy. He sounds like he tries to get as much free advice from as many people as he can. Good job.

I suspect that Dennis had built up some kind of a relationship before he asked someone to lunch to pick their brains.

There’s a difference in taking a friend or acquaintance to lunch and expecting someone you’ve just heard give a presentation to sit sown and give you a side of free advice with your lunch.

While I see the point of both parties, I would love to see someone who is so sure of their process that they would be willing to say, “I will help you make money on line, and all you have to do is pay me half of what you make for the next year.”

That way, if the system is really that good, you get to not only prove it, but also anyone can do it since they don’t have to come up with some exuberant fee from the start.

Well, that is just my rant.

Neal

Perry,

At first I could understand where the other guy was coming from, but when I read your response I recognized that you are totally right!

Also, I can’t think of a better way to use your money than to help AIDS orphans in Africa! That is WAY cool. We need much more of that kind of thing. Continue to stay humble, teachable, and a good steward of your time. Thanks for all of the knowledge you’ve already shared!!

Eddie

Perry,

your evil clearly knows no bounds. Fancy not being able to spare a few crumbs of wisdom from the table of your good fortune.

A more charitable heart would have compassionately embraced this poor beast and his pathetic 6 figure income.

One of the circles of Hell is reserved for online marketers just like you. It’s a place of restrictively high bid prices, terminally low CTR’s and obnoxious, time-wasting, freebie-clawing, serial unsubscribers.

Shame on you.

Simon Strachan

As a lawyer whose value is measured in time and advice, I respect your position.

It is strictly a function of success. If needed for marketing oneself, free lunches, free speaking and writing, etc. is something one does. If one’s success no longer requires that, one can charge for lunchtime as any other time.

Unfortunately, there is an industry devoted to making money off the willingness of professionals to give away valuable information for marketing purposes (that often do not materialize).

It is very heartening to see how the Internet is altering that by allowing direct sales of information and advice, without a middleman, and for independent value, not just as client bait. You and others who shed light on this path deserve whatever the market will bear.

The big trick, as I see it, is how to take the model of people who succeed with “how to get rich quick” information products and apply it to information products and services that help others make or save money less directly (e.g., in my case by reducing employment litigation risk).

Perry –
I’m a consultant and I too get sick of people wanting to “chat”, or “take me to coffee or lunch or a cocktail” and “pick my brain.” I am amazed at their audacity in telling me that is their intention.

I help authors publish their books in a highly customized, and thus, high maintenance way. Each and every day, I give away a half hour to this person or an hour to that person for a first consultation… then, invariably, I endure days and days of questions and phone calls and e-mails and materials they send for my review.

I work 12 hours a day actually performing the tasks of publishing books for incredibly brilliant, authors who have paid for my services and actually want to start a micro publishing business. And by the way, they expect to use that advice to make enough money in their publishing/speaking venture to pay their own bills and pave the way to their own dreams. I love helping them see their way to those dreams, as I’m sure you do.

Isn’t making more money or being more successful ultimately the reason people seek the advice of consultants? Why is it fair for others to ask for it for free? At what point do the freebie seekers expect to start paying for advice? Isn’t asking for advice a form of product or business development — just like education, training, licensing, testing, etc.? If you were going to a product design firm to help you design a prototype for a new flashlight, you would expect to pay them for their advice and guidance.

For those of you who don’t understand the life of a consultant. Let’s drill down. You own a store. You have 1440 widgets in total inventory. You want to devote 240 of those widgets to something you cared about deeply, 390 additional widgets were useless because you were just too tired to use them, and 50 of them were wasted while you were driving, 40 of the widgets went bad while you were answering an e-mail about some greedy person you don’t even know, 240 widgets were not usable because you were working on something else instead of selling those widgets, another 60 widgets spoiled while you were making sure your widgets were the most up to date and helpful widgets available… and finally you gave away 60 nice shiny widgets each and every day – Now your initial inventory just went from 1440 items to 360 widgets you can actually sell. Oh, and by the way, those 360 expire at the end of each day.

This is the life of a consultant who sells their minutes. There are 1440 “widgets” or minutes in a day. No more, no less. You can’t manufacture more, you can’t save costs on them, you can’t return them if they are defective, you can’t offshore them.

Way to go Perry – Stay strong and stick up for those of us who have a perishable inventory that greedy pilferers don’t appreciate. However, next time, maybe, don’t let it build up to where you just have to let it all loose on one poor guy – I’m sure all those other “askers” added to this frustration and Dennis alone didn’t warrant all of the blame! No matter how bad he spelt thangs.

Isn’t Perry just teaching us a *lesson* about positioning, about knowing what you’re worth and creating enough value to justify what you charge? While not giving in to special situations or exceptions without due thought?

The people who can’t imagine charging clients for lunch are often (not always) the same people who wonder why they can’t get their clients to pay for their time, or why they’re always giving out “free consultations” to prospects who never pay them a dime.

It sounds like Dennis is playing the ‘blame game’ As I’ve followed you for a while, I can attest first hand to the valuable info you dole out for free.

If everyone that was in a ‘for profit business’ gave out everything they know for free…well in no time they have no business.

Perry,

I can’t understand why you don’t appreciate it when people give you unsolicited advice on how to run your business and your life. Seriously, I agree with your summary. Dennis doesn’t know you or your operation at all. I personally have received a ton of useful, actionable, free information from you in the way you wish to dispense it: through white papers, other documents, and teleconferences. I suspect thousands if not tens of thousands of people like me have received similar benefits from joining your legions of followers. It’s never occurred to me that you were greedy or a rip-off artist. I guess it’s also never occurred to me to ask you to lunch. On a broader note, I find Dennis’ opinions to be symptomatic of the broader societal ill we suffer today. So many people think their opinions about someone else (informed or not) are valid and important and they impose far fewer restraints on themselves with respect to expressing those opinions than in previous decades. We can thank Jerry Springer’s confrontational TV show and lesser daytime TV evils for encouraging the demise in polite discourse, I guess.

Perry,
I’ve been getting your newsletters now for a few weeks and read most of them. I read through the email from Dennis and your response and I am left wondering what your point was in sending out the email in the first place. What were we supposed to get from this? That your time is valuable? I would prefer that in the future, you just send emails to me that have something to do with AdWords or marketing in general. I already know your time is valuable. Mine is too.
Thanks-

When you subtract people that:
don’t take consistent action
are not bright enough
lacking sufficient experience
don’t have the right mix of talents
have insufficient resources
you are left with about 1 person in 2000.

There is much greater profit in just selling what works rather than dragging someone across the finish line.

I’ve done free coaching, I’ve done paid coaching, the more you charge, the higher quality people you get, the more likely they are to take action, they are usually in a better position to benefit from good direction.

I consider your action and reasons for same a lesson to be learned by me on how to better disipline myself on the wise use of my Professional Time .

Now I have my 2nd New Years Resolution !

* The 1st one was to become a top 0.8% person at the end of my 5th year in Business, by becoming a top 20% person in 2009 and then a 4.0% person in 2010

Perry… well said… those who feel as Dennis does usually are those who shop price as well… This is not an assumption but my experience in both consulting and service businesses.

You hit it on the head when you cite VALUE to be the benefit, which quickly offsets the cost – because those who USE the information they buy EXPECT a significant Return on Investment – it’s an INVESTMENT Dennis.

Someone, maybe me, ought to write about the difference between cost and investment. Quickly stated – when we make an investment we expect a monetary return (real estate, business, stocks) when something costs (car, toy, vacation) the return is a feeling or memory.

When seeking information / consulting the return is financial – so make sure when you pay for it – you’re ready to use it and profit from it. It’s well known those who want something for free usually never act on the information – the reason is clear – they haven’t made an investment – so they have nothing to lose… basic human psychology stuff.

Utilizing the information… it’s almost laughable when someone wants something for free… it’s laughable because in the Internet Marketing community there is tons of free information worthy of getting any newbie to intermediate up and running. On Perry’s site alone there’s thousands and thousands of dollars worth of usable content.

I’ll wrap it up saying this… as a 13 year web developer and online strategist the biggest issue I find with clients who seek and buy information is implementing that information… Dennis if you have a plan and you knew you could triple your money – but you have to invest $725 an hour – would you do it?

The answer is clear… ALL DAY LONG!

Perry thanks for sharing this post – it’s one of those straight to the point necessities business people must be aware of.

Happy Thanksgiving to All!

Alan

I agree with both Denis & yourself Perry, however I belive you are rationlizing yourself on the merry path to self obsorbed hell. Hey go ahead make people pay, but if its just lunch get them to make a donation to a charity as most well respected mentors do. Want lunch with Warren Buffet, sure it’ll cost you around $150,000 BUT all the money goes to a charity not 1 dime to Mr Buffet. Tell me this aint a brilliant plan, gets the buyer to be serious as they paid for your time, plus it actully builds some valuable PR which every half assed internet marketer could do with. So my question to you Perry is this. Are you greedy or smart?

Not sure where Dennis is coming from. The “G” word is an awfully broad brush to stroke with because he doesn’t agree with Perry’s “no-free-lunch” practice.

That said, I thought Perry’s response was about twice as long as it needed to be to get the point across. The rest of the note was emotional–and I suspect that is why some perceive arrogance. Perry could also run a bit too close to “object-too-much” territory. If you know what I mean.

I also questioned the value of making this public, when it came to me that this is likely another example of “free” advice. The admonishment for those of us who set our feet somewhere on “Planet Perry” is to mindful of how we steward our time.

That point is not lost on me–as someone who only recently learned to say “no” every now and then.

That said, I would have framed my response to Dennis a little differently.

“Sorry you don’t agree with my practice of not giving away my time . . . Although to make the accusation that I’m greedy is–at best–hasty. If you would care to understand my reasons for such a policy, here they are . . .

To sum, my practice of not giving away my time is a reflection of my wish to be fair to my clients, do the most good for as many people as I can, while balancing the significant demands for my time.

Perhaps upon reflection, you may come to recognize the value of my policy to not only the people who do pay for my time, but also those who would ask for it for free.

All the best,”

Of course, that’s just my opinion.
I might be wrong

Hey Perry,

I have to confess that I tend to avoid these “hey comment on what I said” kind of things because they are typically just gush fests — and that doesn’t really help anyone. Yes, we all love and respect you, yadda yadda yadda. And besides, when a guy in your position asks for posts to his blog, he’s going to get so many of them that he *probably* won’t actually read a large percentage of them, particularly if his time is as valuable and rare as you portray yours to be in your response to Dennis (which I have no reason to think isn’t true). But then, am I actually telling YOU what I think, or am I just taking part in a “instance of marketing”? Well, certainly the latter, maybe the former, who knows? You are good at what you do, and what we’re all participating in right now is… what to call it? “The Digital Theater of Marketing” or something like that. Anyway…

I WILL respond to this little dialogue or spat or whatever you want to call it by saying that I learned a great lesson from you the other day on the Infusionsoft call, when you said the thing about there being $10/hour, $100/hour and $1,000/hour tasks in any business and that our job as successful entrepreneurs is to be aware of which ones are which and make choices from there (as opposed to how most of us – myself included – have a tendency to do it). That was a really valuable lesson that has had a big impact — even just 48 hours later — on how I’m thinking about my business and, specifically, my time. The point is, we all have very little time, really, so how do we want to spend it? I don’t believe in over-scheduling and I think rigidity in our use of time makes us less able to be open to and learn from the weird and wonderful curve balls that life continues to throw our way (whether it’s talking to a stranger who stops by to sell you magazines at your house or someone you meet at a bar). But I also have needed to see more clearly the difference between doing what I WANT and LIKE to do (and therefore what has value to me) and what I do just because it’s in front of me and “needs to get done.” And besides, doing all that $10/hour crap not only takes time out of my day that I could use having philosophical conversations with little old ladies walking their dogs in my neighborhood (or whatever), but it also effectively takes money out of the pockets of people here and abroad who would LOVE to have the opportunity to make $10/hour!

Happy TG, etc. Thanks for the food for thought!

-David

Perry, your reply to the accusation of being greedy is spot on! You have and continue to give tons of free training and you sell information well below it’s true value in terms of return on investment if applied.

Also, I am positive you DO go to lunch with people and let them pick your brain for free AFTER they have taken the time to develop a relationship with you. To approach you, unannounced and unknown to you, and ask you to “go to lunch” is what I would call obvious greed. These people do not know you, your family, your problems. They are not your everyday friends looking to genuinely enjoy your company. They have one motive in offering to buy you a $20 lunch…getting hundreds of dollars worth of free coaching.

So, where does the ethics problem really lay?

Jim

Perry,

I have the most respect for your business
and newsletters. I also have the most respect for your emails and knowledge and advice.

But with all due respect:

a) Dennis is 50% RIGHT!
b) And you are 50% RIGHT!

Dennis is 50% right because that’s not an
appropriate answer. You can not change how
you made Dennis feel… and even after reading
your reasoning I would still feel like Dennis if I had asked you for lunch too.

I also believe that you are right in terms of NOT allowing others to pass the line. I give you credit of 50% for that here. But in the end of the day, I still believe that was NOT the best way to use communication with people.

If you had said something like:

“Dennis I would love to have launch would you and all the other people who have invited me over the past days… But please understand this would NOT a fair thing to do will all the people who pay for me to get advice. So I will have to kindly decline your lunch offer. Thanks”

It’s a polite answer. And addresses the question in its context. Gets the job done.
(And I know you khow how to sell so there’s no point in being me saying this.)

But to even mention the $700 is “offensive” given the context of the conversation. That’s like a “friend talking to a friend”.

Perry, your friends don’t ask you for $700 to have lunch with them. Do they?

They do it out of their appreciation they have for WHO you are. Nothing else.

The context matters. And with all honestly I think I would feel just like Dennis.

Just better “Contextual Communication” would have been enough to solve the issue.

Those are my 2 cents!

Regards,

Frederico Vila Verde

P.S. And only unless Dennis asks you that he really wants to have dinner with you, would I mention the $700.

But that would be the SECOND CARD to play in your deck. NOT the first card. The first card is just to decline the invitation.

Way to turn a sour lemon into sweet lemonade Perry! Can I take you to lunch sometime? LOL

With me it depends upon the situation. If someone comes all the way to Japan and wants to take me to lunch, then I gladly accommodate them. Of course, I don’t get inundated like you do because of my location.

However, if the lunch is meant as a meeting to pick my brain, I would charge for it. It no longer is lunch then. It is work.

Of course it’s ludicrous to suggest that one can’t run one’s life and business any way that one likes…

It’s also very nice for you to know that there are many people who would happily pay you for your time… Good for you.

To reduce all activities… lunch, spare time, what ever to a dollar value just seems a a bit “scroogish”, particularly in light of your nicely written documents on philosophy and religion.

Arrogance might be a term that comes to mind.

Meeting with other people is not just about what they get from you… but on what the whole group gets from the interaction. Perhaps you see that differently.

Hey… you put the question out there…

Michael

Your da man Perry. I’m glad I got to see how a seasoned pro handles these situations.

Are you kidding me? This is all you got before thanksgiving? Why not spread around some positivity in these current uncertain economic and political times!?!

Here’s an idea(for free which costs you nothing) – How about sending out an e-mail about clients and things you are thankful for rather than singing the – “GOT TO MANY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TALK TO ME FO’ FREE” blues. I am sure “God” will add this to your “heavenly” bank account.

I mean why vent publicly on a guy who is feeling like a jilted lover, because you will not take him up on his offer? Good for the ego, I guess.

My mother was the CEO of a 9-store retail/commercial/wholesale picture framing company. Consequently, she was always being approached by vendors who wanted her to buy something. Her lesson to me, “Never be rude to people who ask for your time; you never know if they might be a customer someday.” Her company had a high net promoter score before there was a net promoter score. I, too, am in marketing consulting. I, too, get asked to lunch by those wanting to “pick my brain.” My emotional reaction is the same as Perry’s. But I always remember my mother’s lesson when I decline and try to leave the other person some dignity. You never know when they might become a client–or refer one.

Perry,
I’ve been a very successful traditional business owner for a long time… And I have been reading your information for years… I have personally inquired about your hourly services myself in the past… I didn’t take you up on it for one reason…

Your choosing to get paid by the hour… that is a limiting factor to your potential growth… The truly weathly don’t get paid for their time, they get paid for their results…

So in my case, I get asked all the time for advice and I give it freely because it’s the results that make me weathly not a helping hand at lunch…

Hi Perry,
Obviously this guy either is not on your mailing list, or does not read your e-mails. You inspire people with your compassion, and provide great value with your thoughts. I have a folder with your emails, and refer to them often. And, you provide all of it for FREE! You have every right to place whatever value you want on your time.
You have EARNED that right.
Thanks,

Mike Hutchins

My own definition of greed is when an addiction grows to start causing the person to compromise their sense of ethics (if they even had any) and rational behavior and decision-making. There’s nothing inherently wrong in the quest for money; just don’t start to fall off-balance as a result. I don’t think greed (of money) is some kind of blurry line, simply marked by a dollar value, that can get crossed.

As for Perry’s situation: this is a capitalist society where the market determines value, and if his time is worth at least $725/hour and he’s still turning away business, then good for him. It’s his time and he has no obligation to share it with anyone else if he doesn’t want to. May we all build our businesses up to, and beyond, the point that he’s at.

As for contributing help to others for free, consider his charity work in India and other places previously. Consider all the helpful advice, emails, and teleseminars he’s offered for free. He gives back in many ways, in ways that suit him and his interests. Free lunch meetings just isn’t on that list. (And I’d be willing to bet that he *chooses* to give back in those ways; without feeling any inherent ethical obligation. But I could be wrong.)

Personally I think that the kind of help he offers when giving teleseminars, pithy emails, and the like is even *more admirable* than self-sacrificing charity donations and the like because the former is mutually beneficial and helps both parties. A win-win situation is far better than self-sacrifice, IMNSHO. (Of course, there are many donations that are made by people that don’t take a real bite out of their resources and aren’t self-sacrificing. Those too are better than the self-sacrificing kind.)

Many of the problems in the world aren’t a result of simple excessive desire for money/gold/oil — it’s the chipping away (or outright dropping) of ethics that those in power commit to obtain greater and greater sums of money (or other object of their addiction).

Ok, I’ll get off my soap box now.

Wow, there are some bitter poeple out there. The first thing I ever attempted to sell on the internet was a Palm OS application. Despite the fact that I had to pay $150 for the program to write the application and despite hours of work, I had someone tell me how low I was to ask people for $10 for a registration code to use it (and despite the fact that I clearly advertised that $5 would go to my favorite charity – a program that helped young adults get very low interest loans to attend college or trade schools)

Dear Perry Happy Thanksgiving!

I think you have taken a perfectly legitimate question/comment and turned it into a marketing/self promotion opportunity at the expense of the person making the comment.

You may not be so inclined but, it may be helpful to reflect on some of your personal motivations that are in play in this dialogue. A couple of self examination questions might be “what was I hoping to get from publicizing this interaction?” “What’s the good that comes from this”?

I usually get the “good” you’re trying to do even if your good is selling me a “good” product or some of your “good” advice. But I don’t get the good you are trying to accomplish here.

We all know you’re smart and as your readers we hear from you about your charitable / giving activities so we know that you give back. I just don’t get what you’re trying to do here. If it’s marketing – you can do better.

Perry, You’re the one with the “audience” so you are the one with the responsibility – use it wisely.

Final comment – is this really the Thanksgiving message you want to give us?

Max

Right on. I’m constantly amazed that successful buiness person would need this reminder. But they do.

I get this all the time. “Would you look over my website and tell me what you think?”

My answer is, “Yes. I have a Diagnostic Service.”

But here’s my favorite. I also have a career change website. Every so often someone emails or calls. “I just got a bad performance review. Can you help?” The questioner is not a file clerk. He or she is an executive.

I’ve always been tempted to write back, “Now I see why you’re not getting great reviews. If you’re asking strangers for free advice, you’ve got a lot to learn.”

That would be cruel, wouldn’t it? Instead, I send a link to my rate sheet and my ebook.

Perry and Laura Marshall are the most generous people I’ve ever met in my 41 years on this planet. Period. They could teach a doctorate- level course on the topic…and Dennis would be wise to enroll in it if they ever do.

I was at that seminar and it lasted until MIDNIGHT because PERRY stayed THREE HOURS longer than he was scheduled, pouring out FREE advice for anyone who stuck around to listen.

“BLOOD SUCKING”???
Maybe mister cheapo should get a FREE word checker….

Perry .. I saw you at the Kennedy meeting last month in Oak Brook.. You gave away.. plenty of FREE Great stuff there..

Maybe if your dad owned a bank.. You could borrow him interest free money too???

How much FREE advice… has he given away???

Perry,

I’m in your court on this one. You make a very good case.

Unfortunately, reasonably expecting true-hearted Dennis to understand ignores an old dictum of Gary Halbert:

“A man can never know what it’s like to give birth.”

Dennis will never have any idea of the value of your advice, or the comparative randomness and uncommitted casualness of his, until he is in a jam and he has nowhere to go and he is forced to hire someone like you to help him out of the jam… or… until he starts feeding his family by selling time.

But, ’twas ever thus.

Happy Thanksgiving, Perry… and hey, the goatee looks good on ya!

-David

Perry. Your response was right on point. Well done.

I have a few other thoughts that I’d like to discuss with you over lunch. When can we meet.

I did not know that we were supposed to critique you on your specific reply to Dennis.

I thought that we were to discuss the PRINCIPAL of the ISSUE and that you were just offering more FREE advice, which we could decide for our self’s if it would benefit us or not.

Since I have known you from your previous Career, I hope that you will always be a Friend and also tell me when I need to be told that “my responses are out of line” but not when I mess up and don’t give a politically correct answer because I’m mentally tired.

I envy your self-esteem. I have failed at three businesses in three different areas of skilled craftsmanship because I could not charge what my skill was worth. Others were charging sometimes ten times my rates for equivalent or inferior work. I just could not write or say the numbers.
I envy your self esteem and willingness to express boundaries, no matter what.
DVB

It is incorrect for a person to make such fast judgements based on one comment without all of the information at hand. I do not know you personally but I have followed some of your works in your websites (the business ones the charity ones and the religious/philosophy ones with your videos and all) and just based on what I have seen, I can tell you are a very busy man and I do believe you have hundreds of people knocking on your door, so I see how someone wanting a freebie of your devoted time and atention just for themselves would not be right from anyway you look at it.

In my opinion, Dennis is absolutely right in his criticism and also in his observation about how you would justify your actions.

The point i think you really missed is the “greedy” reality which has blinded you and has blinded a large segment of the world and is why the world’s economy is in such a mess.

In your personal viewpoint expressed i think you have lost sight of the real reason you are successful and that is not because you are so wonderful but the fact that your customers have supported you… that is where your success comes from. I would suggest you don’t loose sight of that or you will quickly learn the lesson that the unapproachable are now learning as casualties of the economy with more to follow.

It really doesn’t matter how wonderful a product is or a person thinks they are… even if they can run a long list of achievements to justify their claim of popularity… the reality is that all equations in life work when there is a balance on both sides.

Don’t lose your value in a tsunami of ego, maintain a sense of reality in your opinion of your own self worth or your value will quickly dilute and no-one will pay anything for it let alone take you for lunch.

It has been my experience that those who accuse others of greed are themselves the greediest people around. It would be interesting to see their pattern of charitable giving for the last 10 years — which of course would be redundant because we already know how it would look.

Regarding Perry and freebies: I have gotten so much absolutely FREE information from Perry and his associates that I have a reasonably large hard drive nearly filled to capacity from all of the MP3′s, PDF’s, and other extraneous information (screen shots, saved emails, URL’s like this one, etc). I feel guilty because I’ve probably read/listened to only 20% of it and have deployed very little of it (I am “procrastination” incarnate in bipedal form).

Unfortunately, there is no shortage of people like Dennis who are willing, if not anxious, to make sweeping assumptions about an individual without a single, credible fact, and certainly never having met the person they are slandering.

This is a classic case of someone hating “Player” not the “Game”
This person level of failure is being attacked by the fact you are making money, so he lash out by trying to compare his years of $100K sales commission to your success…
Perry, He was waiting for you to offer him a 10% discount coupon!

I agree with Frederico in his comment.

We all have to protect our time, but the way to do it with tact and manner makes a huge difference in the way people respect you.

I ask guru’s all the time to go to lunch, and most of the time they say no. I have even had them say yes, but then put me off and put me off until I disappeared. This is not the right approach either.

Gurus need to learn a little tact and support to their clients and followers. No one likes to follow a crabby leader. After all, it is your customers and followers that give you the “guru” status.

Remember the little people and don’t take them for granted. At least tell Dennis you are flattered and would love to spend time with him, but at the moment you are booked and busy… but, he could jump in line by becoming a client… if he wanted to get some rates, call my assistant…

My 2 cents.

Perry,

I am a physician and I do understand the importance of being compensated for my time, however, I believe this situation with Dennis was not handled correctly.

Let me explain: I offer advanced diagnostic training for doctors throughout the US and abroad and have attended many many seminars with both students and potential students. I have also been asked to lunch and dinner to discuss topics related to our training.

First and foremost, I want to eat and second I don’t give a long dissertation on our 8 month training.

Case in point: I was recently invited to dinner by one of the doctors and he was accompanied by five other physicians. These doctors were very respectful and did not take me for granted. I of course provided a short overview of what they can learn and a couple of pearls.

Based on this 90 minute lunch I was contacted a few weeks later and asked to present our training to over 500 doctors and the payday was amazing.

I agree that if someone called me and asked me to take time away from my paying students and give them my information for free that is different.

But in this case, you were at a seminar and eating is part of the program.

Meeting with a few folks to simply get to know them would have been appropriate. Remember you are in control and you could have decided what you wanted to share.

Remember, our marketing efforts do include giving away something of value to show folks that we have other great content but it will cost them.

You had a wonderful opportunity to be gracious and give away things that you already gave away. And you had the right to reserve your other stuff for the ones that want to pay for it.

In closing, you may believe that your African donations will suffice in explaining why you need to be paid but to be quite honest, it has left a bad taste in my mouth from someone that I considered to be a good guy.
I will likely continue to buy from you but you need to re-evaluate your priorities.

You may feel good about your reply to this man but you lost not only him but the many people he will influence and the many people who read this blog and tend to agree with him.

Bad move…

Just my thoughts.

Ron

To Frederico and Dennis,

I have had my feelings hurt when I felt that I had been denied something I believed I was entitled to. I have gone away thinking someone was selfish or didn’t care about others.

And I was wrong. When I tried a different viewpoint I learned GREAT things.

I invite you to consider this.

NONE OF US lives in the other guy’s shoes. We don’t have his needs, or his pressures.

The way to become sour and unhappy is to decide how other people “should” act – and then judge them by our own rules. That really worked for me.

Dennis feels that Perry is 100% wrong.

Frederico feels that Perry is only 50% wrong.

Both of you are wasting time and brain space that could have benefited you hugely. Your brains might have given you some great insight if you had set aside your own filters and rules and seen things from a new point of view. It could be worth a fortune to both of you.

How? You could just “try on” Perry’s experience. You can do that by reading his letter — AGAIN — and imagining yourself in his shoes.

Forget your judgment. JUST USE THIS GIFT OF YOUR IMAGINATION. You may be amazed at what you’ll learn.

Or not…

Perry, your reply was excellent, and I agree with you 100%.

To ask someone out for “lunch” then milk them for free business advice just to avoid Perry’s consulting fee is downright dishonest.

That man should be ashamed of himself. There is enough free information in Perry’s newsletters and website to help anyone succeed in business. Why should Perry have spend time away from his friends and family to give away free consulting time in the form of “lunches” too?

If Perry didn’t charge for his consultancy time, how does this man expect Perry to support his wife, kids, employees and the large amount of charity work he does for people in REAL need?

Someone who claims to have been making over $100k since the ’70′s should know better than to write such a naive, and manipulative email.

You’d expect that kind of attitude from a 14 year old who thinks Mommy and Daddy should provide him with everything he wants, but reading these words from a 58 year old is just despicable.

One of my sayings is.. many times we dont know the whole story so lets be careful to pass judgment and this was the perfect example.

Good job.

Van

If I might add my two-cents. I have been following you, Perry, for some time and certainly don’t think you are greedy. I believe you give value for your advise and for that you should get paid. That said, I think you could have handled the situation with a little more tac. If I were in Dennis’s place, I would feel the same way. A polite response would have been to just decline the invitation and walk away. Dennis doesn’t need a reason. Giving the reason you did does make you appear aloof and not in touch with the little guy. And we who know you, know that is not true.

Hey Perry,

I have known you now for over 4 years and I have to say that Dennis is so far off the mark about you its just not funny.

I have a similar challenge (although not as massive as yours mate) where people want to “pick my brain” for free information ( I class someone buying me lunch for me exchanging 10 years worth of knowledge is free to them).

I think people like Dennis are the cause of a great deal of the worlds financial problems today. The people who want something for nothing. They are lazy and they are everywhere.

It brings a whole new meaning to the saying ” There’s no such thing as a free lunch”

Keep the faith Perry

Your mate DownUnder

Ed Keay-Smith
http://www.adwordsmarketing.com
http://www.ozdomainer.com

I agree with you whole heartedly. I have a website to help people with agoraphobia and panic attacks. I was recently accused of taking advantage of people’s anxiety to get rich.” Reading your response to this man made me feel a lot better. Developing expertise in an area and using it to benefit others is a lot of work. Like you, I don’t mind giving to people who are truly in need – but if someone who can pay for your services gets mad when you ask them to – then they don’t really understand the value of what you are offering. Thanks for the inspiration.

This has caused a great discussion, which is awesome.

Let’s be honest here, time is money. And if people are used to getting things for free, then why would they ever pay?

Of course… you wouldn’t like a friend charge you $700 to meet them, right?

But get real: customers aren’t friends. They’re customers. It doesn’t mean you aren’t friendly to customers, obviously we all must strive to treat each other respectfully, but that’s not Perry’s point.

The whole reason Perry keeps getting the “free lunch” requests is because he’s got the skill and talent to turn around businesses. If he didn’t have the results then no one would care to take him out.

All this comes from a former Bobsled Run member… so I know what it’s like to pay the cash to kick start and boost my business.

Max,

I can’t speak for Perry, but I can only assume his motivation for opening this to public address is because where there is one “Dennis,” there are more. This was a personal attack, calling him greedy, equating his “greed” to the typical stereotype of lawyers, and ending with Perry’s position being “bull shit.” He could have ignored it and tossed it in the trash, but since there are likely to be many more out there who may feel likewise I honestly think Perry has deftly handled the matter — especially by not revealing the details in the email but rather allowing the recipient to decide whether or not to follow the link for more details.

Sometimes we really do need to “fight back” (for lack of a better word) and not allow people to wallow in the mire of their own ignorance. If I had done this, I would want to be set straight.

I think the guy should learn to spell. But I think Perry’s a hypocrite … the time he’s spent faffing around with this he could’ve taken the guy out for lunch.

If he didn’t feel guilty he’d not have written a long letter or asked his wife.

Yes this salesman’s a jackass, but Perry is on a power trip.

p.s. Perry – Update your adwords guide, it’s out of date buddy.

In my book, professionals need to keep their differences of opinion, with others, between the affected parties.

Dennis may have been incorrect in his assumptions, and I too have reaped many benefits from your generosity, but that does not justify blasting a personal email to everyone who is affiliated with you.

Anyone who has read this will tend to speak their mind on the topic… but they will also walk away with that spark of doubt about approaching you with any of their concerns.

It’s a domino effect. For every individual who reads and/or responds to this at least 5 additional people will learn about it through word of mouth.

You may have done more indirect damage to your reputation than you may realize. Let’s hope that isn’t the case.

Perry,
I am a bit older then Dennis, but I do understand his point. I too have had my success’s and down times. Just trying to learn all the internet tech goodies can drive me up a wall. I think Dennis hit the point that many, at least Americans feel today and that is that there is Far too much greed being outed today.

Dennis was on target with his idea. However it seems he sent his understandable bitterness to the wrong party. He assumed you to be a part of the unfortunately bigger picture, un-controlled greed which is a really bad stain on Capitalism

Hi Perry,

I have greatest regard for you and keep reading your Emails Blogs etc. However I think its was totally wrong on your part to post an Email sent to you by Dennis. The way I see it is that the Brilliant marketer you are, you saw the marketing opportunity with this Email to market your consulting services at US $ 725 per hour and to tout your philanthropy of supporting AIDS Orphans in Africa. I agree that you have the right to charge whatever amount you think is right, but you have no right to post an Email sent to you on a blog like this. You owe an apology to Dennis.

Regards
Raj

P.S: In case you have taken the permission of Dennis to post his Email, my apologies and withdraw my comments.

I’d just like to go on record here saying: “I too am pretending to have an opinion here because I too am officially procrastinating doing any REAL work this morning.”

This reminds me of the story of the furnace repair man who was summoned late one night, in the dead of winter, to repair a furnace that wasn’t working.

After examining the furnace for a few moments, he delivered a blow to the side of the unit with the bottom of his fist, and low and behold, the furnace started right back up.

When the $1000 bill was presented, the incredulous homeowner asked, “what is this for?”. To this the repairman replied, “it was $1 to hit the side of the furnace, and $999 to know WHERE to hit it.”.

Perry,

I agree with others that have posted earlier saying that you should charge what you feel your time is worth and agree with your own comments regarding why you are justified in doing so. The great Earl Nightingale once quoted a evergreen phrase from the Holy Bible that says it all “as you sow, so shall you reap,” however, reason and common sense have escaped some of your readers.

As I put on my marketing hat, I also think you are employing savvy marketing here to get your fans to “rally around the enemy” and stand up for you. It only polarizes your true customer base even more and you are smart to have realized this and to be commended for taking action to share his comments with your list.

Since we all know that Dennis is just a whiner and was never going to invest any money in your advice or in your products anyway, it only makes sense to do what you did.

Best wishes for continued prosperity, happiness and health. Also, wishing you and yours a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Ryan

Hi Perry

Yes, this is one of those cases where you can expect flak from people. Dennis has a point or two there – regarding the willingness to also plough back knowledge and time. I also believe in the same principle.

However – I think the part he did not give enough thought to is the fact that this can very easily get out of hand if not managed correct. And the fact remains that, the more successful you become and the more visible your personal profile becomes – the more people will demand your “free” time.

I will just take a bet that a certain Mr Trump has this same problem!

And I am also willing to bet that HE manages the how, why and where of his free time and advice very, very carefully.

Your second point Perry, about people almost never acting on free advice is absolutely spot on. Everybody wants to hear that what suits their thoughts and plans best. So if they are willing to pay for your advice, at least you know they are pretty damn serious and they might just implement some of what you tell them.

So I fully agree with your decision here and, for what my opinion is worth – I think you did the correct thing under the circumstances.

Keep on with the good work!

Regards

Riaan

WOW!

great response but more interesting is the amount of responses on the response!

My time might not be worth $700/hr yet but it’s certainly better spent counting all these posts.

However it’s just a sign and tribute to the success of Perry. It just shows that his books, emails, courses and everything else totally works!

love the emails, been reading them for years.

Congratulations Perry

Hi Perry,

I’ve been getting your emails for a few years and they contain lots of free advice. You are always offering promotions and deals and most of the questions I could ask you over lunch can be answered myself by reading your published information. So, I can get most of what I need for much less than $700. In my book this makes you a generous businessman!

Too many people want a fast free ride without putting in the effort. By charging them for your time you weed out the time-wasters and get to people who will really make use of your expertise.

David is clearly upset and maybe on reflection he will acknowledge he is wrong?

Thanks
Bill

The issue may be more to do with the target market, and this may be an ongoing issue with internet marketing.

Internet marketers want to get a large cache of readers so they can send offers to them with the expectation that some will purhase products. The apple used to gather these people are often frebies, which puts people in a certain mindset and attacts people with that mindset.

I have no issues with people wanting to charge for their time. To be honest, I agree with it. People often exchange time for money. Its how most people make a living… By going to work and exchanging their time for money.

Its unrealistic to expect everyone to live by your expectations. You expect people to value your time and information. Its simply not true. People do what’s best for themselves, for their own reasons. There is no reason for me to care about you, unless there is something in it for me.

Combine the two. People who focus upon themselves and people who are given free things. Its a recipe for this to continue to happen.

Do what you think is right for you and they will do what they think is right for themselves. If I choose not to give up my time for free, that’s my choice. I don’t care if you respect my position or not.

If internet matketers are going to continue to dispense free information, they are setting themselves up for the majority of people to not value them or their time.

I read your reply and the post re your charging for dinner time advice.
I would have once been upset in a similar way to Dennis, but now side with you and here is why.
I have studied the sharemarket in NZ and read many books newsletters etc on investing over many years. I have figured out a few things and have done OK on our sharemarket.
A guy at work approached me asking for me to direct him him to specific investments to build a portfolio for him with $100,000.
I found myself wanting to refuse because I have done the hard yards and felt why should he get the easy benefit of my years of work and never even offer me a fee for my advice.
I had a conversation with another guy who was following a mates investment advice and was investing accordingly. I felt then that this guy didn’t deserve that help as he was bragging about how well his portfolio was doing without any knowledge of the companies or the markets himself and it didn’ sit right.
When you have worked hard to learn you owe noone the fruits of your learning especially as they could have done the same and had the same opportunity. That person who wants a “free lunch” is just being lazy really.
As it happens I do give my time and skills to help people and to human rights causes but that is my business as you say.
All the best Perry ignore the wingers and carry on , there are plenty of better people to work with in this world. regards, Claude

While I agree with your motivation for turning down the ‘free lunch’ and your right to charge for your valued expertise please note, politeness cost nothing.

The tone of your response seemed like a affirmatory diatribe to justify your proposition. There is no need to be confrontational rather it just re-inforces the critism that was placed in your direction.

A very disappointing response for a professional.

Hey Pery. Most probably I’ll never invest a dime paying for you time, but I thank you for all you give us for free, I hope to get profit for it in future learning that I know nothing. I really enjoy following you.

Hi Perry

Good on ya, that is all I can say. I live in the UK and would love to take you out to lunch, not for free advice but to thank you for all of the free advice you have already given me through your numerous e-mails and your website.

I absolutely understand and accept your position on this. Why should those lucky enough to be able to attend the myriad of awesome seminars have the privilege of taking a proven guru such as you, Ken McCarthy, Dan Kennedy, Jay Abraham or John Carlton to lunch just because they are at the seminar. If they can afford to attend one of these events they should be able to afford your consulting time.

When I paid you $700 for your marketing course I was amazed that I was entitled to your consulting time as part of the deal. I would rather pay you my hard earned cash knowing that a good Christian, generous man like yourself gives of himself and his wealth to WORTHY causes other than the “American dream”.

In my opinion it is those that expect “hand-outs” like this who are taking food from the mouths of starving Children around the world.

Wishing you and your readers a happy Thanksgiving.

I am really sorry to say, that if you are not greedy then you are also not to much on the bright side, as far as people skills are concerned. A simple “sorry no time” is more than enough to get the same result. Charging somebody who wants to take you out for lunch is an offensive by any standard, even even if their motivation probably is to pick your brain. I am European and a lunch for me is still a social event and a pleasure. If you have to spend 24hours a day thinking business, I am afraid that you can charge 1000$ and still be a sad person. If you are not able to have a lunch without talking business and if you cannot turn down business questions in a polite and stylish way, then I am afraid you are not half as good as you think you are;-). Do take a look at the big picture sometimes. This advice is for free. And do not ever invite me for lunch, because you could not afford the lessons I could teach you about life (does that sound arrogant ? that’s because it is) . Apart from that I agreee with a comment made earlier. This is a clever way to get peoples emails and a pagefull of content.
Well done. And I hope I will get at least a link to my homepage for this.

Hi Perry,
So here’s a perspective from the other side of the pond.
1)A simple ‘No’ might have been the preferable route, or even “No, I simply do not have the time”. We are not obliged in life to give explanations or justifications for that word.
2)Completely unsure why the incident needed to become a big discussion point though – why humiliate Dennis further? Has he really deserved all this?
3) Yes, there is no doubt as a fellow consultant (in a different field) I and most people who excel in their field have learnt that free advice = wasted breath, whether pro bono / to friends / family etc. People only listen and act upon what you say when they are paying you way too much. That is bizarrly how human nature works.
4) It obviously bugged you / caught you on a bad day, otherwise your own reaction wouldn’t have been so drastic too. Seems a tad out of character from the person we’ve all grown to respect.

You’re made of better stuff than this!!!
Why not move on and close this down now?
Cheers

Hi Perry. Gee what happend here? Poor ice on it and move on. Your a professional, rise above this. Dennis doesnt have a link to 1,000′s of people to slander you, but you have that link and you havent used it wisely, this time. We all learn by our mistakes and some readers wil be learning a lesson here as well. Lets just stick to the ‘good news’ from Perry as always. Cheers from Australia

Perry,

You handled this all wrong! Interesting discussion, yet it should have remained private. And also marketing 101…don’t burn your bridges, at your prices, you could have missed out on $$$Thousands$$$$, let alone word of mouth referrals….everyone has around 600 people in their circle. Sorry bud, all wrong. The good thing is that it sounds like even the ones here that are taking the same side as I took….your getting a second chance at gaining back the respect…not only on a business level, but as an individual.

Why do we fall down? So that we can learn how to pick ourselves up.

Regards,

Jamie

Dennis,

It’s not completely impossible to get to talk for free to somebody like Perry. Just like anybody else, he also applies a “What’s in it for me?” logic.

That applies to who ever you want to talk to. In most cases the “What’s in it for me?” question is translated into dollar signs. That’s pretty normal. But not always. People live for more than just money. “Picking someones brain” usually means you get something without giving anything in return. That it is flattering to have your brain picked is only of value when you´re not the Guru that everybody knows. Once you reached that status, there’s no value for you anymore in having your brain picked for free.

Perry

Right with you.

It’s great giving away free stuff, but some people don’t see the value and always want more!

I’m sure a free lunch with you would benefit them less than everyone else!

Keep up the good work.

I am one of the few that have known Perry from the bad old days when he was a very poor, struggling Sales Rep. I can honestly say that he hasn’t changed a bit in those 15 years. He’s still one of the nicest, most generous people I’ve ever met. He is someone we’d all do well to pattern ourselves after.

I totally agree with Perry’s position on the “no free lunch ” offer.

By asking his readers their opinion on this matter, its also interesting to see all the different responses comming from people.

This provides valuable feedback to see how people tick.

Perry,

I thank you for rejecting this guy’s demand for giving your time away for free to him.

I thank you because you are a good role model by showing how you value your time.

After all, a big part of success in any field is how you value and handle your own time.

I know from my own experience that in the past I wasted lots of my time by following all requests from anybody,
just out of fear of disapproval or even be hurt by anybody. ( In school I was hurt… )

It is not just about giving away free advice or so. Sometimes people just want somebody who listens to them or want to do some lengthy non-sense talking or similar stuff.

Even in those cases, where nothing sellable is given away, this is often a big waste of time and energy.

I think we all have to learn to be stewarts of our own time and energy.

Nowadays when I know that I have a lunch break of one hour, I prefer to spend about 30 minutes for eating and relaxing and the other 30 minutes I take out my notebook computer in order to get some work done.

I do this every day because I am running/building my business besides my employee job. I use the lunch break of my employee job to work on my business.

I wouldn’t spend the whole hour goofing off with my colleagues, and they respect that, nor do they goof off for so long anyways…
(Though I usually, but not always, spend the eating time together with them, and that’s OK in my case because I have a *balanced* colleague relationship with them…)

Also, if I spend free advice then it is with strategy: If I give away free support to prospects for my software product, I do this because
* this often leads to the sale of a license,
* this leads to positive word-of-mouth marketing,
* this is market research, so I know how to improve my product and/or documentation and/or sales-copy.

I would never give away free advice or free support when my business were to sell advice or support or when this giving away free advice or support were not useful in the overall business strategy.

In the case of Dennis, him being a salesman, going out to lunch with prospects was probably pretty strategic. He probably closed lots of sales that way. So, for him, it was well invested time and I think that he got paid well for that time.

So, thank you again for being a great role model. And you have all of my support for respecting the value of your own time.

Chris

The real problem in America, in my view, is a sense of ENTITLEMENT – and Dennis demonstrates this so beautifully in his email. I remember similar comments on Rich Schefrin’s site – that since he is rich and successful, he “owes” those whon are not. That fact is that Rich and Perry and others have earned their success and what they do with their time is entirely up to them.

And by the way, in response to the comment above …

“I disagree with you. I frequently attend seminars/events and have spoken at seminars. Meeting people for lunch afterwards is not something I would charge for. It’s the civil thing to do and is part and parcel of attending a seminar-especially as a speaker.”

… I have been at several conferences with Perry and he has lunched with a group of attendees – at no charge. The important words here are ‘group’ and ‘informal’.

I think Perry’s response was spot on.

What right did Dennis have demanding a lunch date and free advice anyway? Perry sells advice and I bet Dennis would never give away any of his products/widgets for free. If he did, people would simply not respect or value the widget. Same goes for free expert marketing advice.

Perry your system is working just fine. You’ve just weeded out another time waster.

Life’s too short to deal with time wasters.

Dear Perry
You seem to have missed the point.
It was the way you said it! If you had explained a little about the reason for your (greed), then, maybe your point would have been taken. Instead, your responce to the request for lunch sounded arogant and conceited. I suggest your take more care with wording when you are turning someone down.
Kind regards
Margo

Hello Perry,
Having read the email from Dennis and your response, along with all the comments from readers, I think I am just going to reserve any opinion I might have. Most every angle has been covered, and you know what, I have learned a great deal from this post.
Just as I learn from your materials Perry, I try to find a lesson in most of the the things I choose to read.
Your lovely wife has the answer in the question she asked. I am of course referring to “understanding”
Lack of understanding leads to assumption and that leads to misunderstanding.
Having said that, I just realized I have just had an epiffiny. I could use adwords to make a nice profit from this post. I can just see it now. I could spend two hours or less a month, and I will obtain the life of my dreams, become wealthy beyond all reason, and the best thing is that anyone can achieve this almost effortlessly. Oh boy, I could write an ebook, do a massive prelaunch, have a firesale, go viral, and include “my secret” to all of this for just $47.00 and of course I will add bonuses worth at least $9796. and give you a free upgrade to “turbo charge” your marketing.
Let’s see, I could —-
OK, just kidding. For anyone that might take this seriously, please refer to Perry’s expertise with Google.
Too: Dennis and Perry,and all,
Happy Thanksgiving!
Larry Johnson

Very interesting discussion! And what a response!

My take is that Perry made his point clearly. He sells his time not a product – so why give it for free (more than he does already?!)

Rob

I’ve followed and purchased from Perry since 2005. The comments here are divided into three groups:

1 – Supportive of Perry’s stance
2 – Against Perry’s stance
3 – Seeing it both ways – “understand your position BUT you could have been more polite…”

What’s most interesting here is the quantity of comments (LOTS) and the length of the average comment (LONG).

This is a perfect, living, real-time, unscripted example of engaging a marketplace (perrymarshall.com readers) with a great story and emotion.

TO ALL THOSE WHINERS in groups #2 & #3 – maybe you can learn something positive from this after all.

If you cannot take Tom Hoobyar’s excellent advice and suspend your judgment and use your imagination to “be in Perry’s shoes” as you RE-READ his letter – then maybe you can move above the issue at hand and see the larger picture – how a market responds to an emotionally engaging story…

It is evident that in this argument, both are bumping your heads into the wall of the ego.

I will put it as simple as I can;

IT IS JUST A MATTER OF UNDERSTANDING THE
MEANING OF “FREE ENTERPRISE”.

If every person in this planet is educated about free enterprise, it will be so beautiful!!!

Results of Perry doing this:

increases interaction

cheap people are offended

people willing to spend are more likely to buy

Successful people have a correct principle reiterated

Perry,

I have some very interesting comments to make on this topic. Only thing is, I would prefer to put the comments to you in person.

So – how about if we met up for lunch instead? Just call my office to make an appointment.

Oh, and don’t forget to bring your credit card. I’d like the most expensive meal on the menu.

Thanks in advance and see you soon.

A reader of my blog asked me to come here and comment. I don’t know Perry, but this debate is simply insane. I’ve pasted below the stock paragraph that is on my computer and which I use in conversation. A million or more people have read my books, listened to my podcasts, watched my videos, and heard me speak. The notion that I either owe them additional value, or that they have a further right to my time, is simply alien to me.

Here it is:
I’m sorry, but I can’t provide free consulting help or I’d be doing this 100 hours a week, given the millions of people exposed to my books, web site, blog, etc. There are hundreds of free articles to download on my site, as well as other resources.

I also offer situational consulting, an hour on the phone and a week of emails, for $1,000. I also have a global mentoring program, also explained on my site.

I hope you’ll understand my position.

All the best,

Alan

Greedy people are the ones who want things for free. That’s greed at it’s finest.

212 comments in 24hours!!

Looks like you struck a nerve Mr Marshall. Good job.

It always amazes me how people find the time and energy to tell you what YOU (or anybody else) what to do or don’t do.

Dennis failed to realize that Perry had already given his talk and offered to stay afterwards late into the night to talk to more these people…what more do you want Dennis??

i am from Indonesia, read all the comment i just remember my mother always say ” is better you give than take ” ,so look at world situation now “is this because of GREEDY of all MANKIND ?”

Sounds to me like Denis is just not happy that he didn’t get some free time.

Typical “Consumer” thinking.

Charging people for your time is the right way to do 2 things…

1) Determine how serious they are about what they want to discuss.

2) Manage your time… We all only have 24 hours so it makes sense that someone who has a lot of demands on their time would be “worth more”.

IMHO Denis is NOT doing the country any good with his dissertation on Greed.

His time would be better spent providing value to others so they are willing to give him $700 per hour.

Perry is a great example of the old quote:
“Find a way to serve many. Because service to many leads to greatness.”

Perry is a great guy IMHO because I don’t even know him but for years he has been sending me good information. I have been using it and I make well over 6 figures a year.

He has served me and I have purchased some of his products because of it…

More empathy (understanding the other persons situation before criticizing) is what this country needs…

Not people on soap boxes telling others why their wrong. (With that said I’ll get off mine… hehe)

Depending on my schedule, I would have taken the lunch…but very much in a similar way…we can talk about numerous things, but large areas connected to the type of advice I offer for a fee would be strictly off limits for the types reasons you mention.

I take that as a given and if anyone tries to cross that line I set them straight.

(How I do that depends on them of course.)

But I do think there is an aspect of this you may not be addressing.

That is …do you think there is no other part of you, your experiences, your life, ….that could be shared with others that you should not charge for?

I think that my be your ego buttering up yourself up….and thus it may be you who are losing something in not taking the relationship with the Lunchers.

Which is why I would accept an offer like that occassionaly…depending on who is was and whether I felt they would try to “pick my brain”.
If you/I want to help folks…and get paid for doing it…it seems to me one would want to keep a finger on the pulse of said “market”. The more successful one becomes, if we take your attitude, the less you may know about your market and how to appeal to them.

No scientific study to support my claims, but this seems to make sense to me.

Or…conversely…do you think that anyone who gives advice for a fee should not “go to lunch” for “free” with those who at one time or another have used their services…or may want to …etc.?

I would suspect that you have tried the very same thing at times and would still do so if there were a person who you valued as an exceptional individual.

It is quite natural to want to emulate & learn from others we perceive as “doing better” than our selves. Whether that is in finances, physical fitness, playing a sport…etc.

You may not get that these folks – in addition to your services – may be enamoured of “Perry The Man”…”Perry The Total Package”….wondering about more than just your public, financial successes….and the advice ( which was the magnet that attracted them initially) that they willingly pay for.

For example…I have always been intrigued by successful people’s diets & exercise habits …family background and how their personal relationships developed as success grew…and/or the challenges that presented.
There are many areas of life,.. types of things that some people may feel are important in addition to your knowledge….that are often not addressed.

I’m just saying I think if you took the occassional lunch…and obviously with the huge volume you have you would need to be selective….but under the right circumstances those very types of social gatherings…a lunch, a meal….are the kinds of settings that can be mutually benificial.

I agree with the majority of your reasoning but think you go too far , to the point you sell yourself short.

But that’s just me.

LOL… for those who are laughing… I do know the difference between they’re and their… hehe

I just hit submit before proof reading. Ha!

BTW – Anna you are brilliant.

People who want stuff for free ARE the greedy ones…

If everybody wants “stuff” for free… then how can the people who provide the “stuff” exist?

Happy Thanksgiving Perry,
I have received many extremely good emails this Thanksgiving about how great we have it in our country and how God has blessed us for this privilege. Your email subject kind of suggested to me more of the same.

I opened it only to read about you complaining about free lunches. Then you included a link about you complaining more about free lunches and justifying it with a message from Dennis who was complaining about greed. WOW!!!

I can’t believe so many bits are being flipped on this topic!

I went back to that email and re-read it. You went and talked at a meeting and had super fun. Great! Just like the first time, I stopped reading it when I read your first bullet: No free lunch. I figured the rest of the email was more of the same. So why continue. My time, like yours, is valuable. I don’t read emails past the fold if there is no value above the fold. If there is no value on top, there is less on the bottom. We all have heard the phrase “headline news.”

Bottom line, Perry, you are out of line. Dennis told you about himself, just as I am telling you about me. And you told me about you. It suggests that you didn’t have anything better to write about.

You attacked Dennis for your personal gain. Am I more likely to spend money with you? Probably not. How many people now equate the name, “Perry Marshall” with the phrase, “No Free Lunch?”

It did remind me of some of the reasons why we get together for lunch. We appreciate our family, friends and business relationships. We have lunches to ask for something we want or to thank someone for something we received.

Might I just say that we all should be thankful that we can pursue our own flavor of happiness in our great country. In my humble opinion, your writing something about that would have been much more valuable to your bottom line. Remember, you’re not the only light bulb on the Christmas tree.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Sooo… aren’t you asking for free advice here?

Let’s see… gotta be a hundred responses here.

So assuming that each person making a response took 6 minutes to think about this…

100 responses X 6 minutes = 10 hours

10 hours X $700

Perry… you owe the universe $7,000.00

Not to mention what you owe Dennis for affording you this chance to make a noise… that’s gotta be worth a few $k… or do you just “take”, like the people you complain about?

It was interesting to get my daily missive from Seth Godin this morning. A bit of a contrast, from someone who certainly understands making a buck.

sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2008/11/thanksgiving.html

Michael Andersen

(waiting patiently for my $70…)

First, Dennis really needs to proof his emails before he sends them out. Using there instead of their, high instead of hi and countries instead of country’s, plus all the spelling errors really gave me a poor image of him.

Now four points about his message.

1. I remember well Abe Lincoln’s words, “A lawyer’s time and advice are his stock in trade.” When you are selling time and advice, giving it away is rather foolish.

2. Syrus a first century philoshopher observed, “Many receive advice, few profit by it.” As a mentor/coach, my worst results have always been those I was helping for free. If a person is not committed enough to pay for advice, they are highly unlikely to value and use it.

3. Napoleon Hill advised that when someone critizes another, the first thing to do is to check the credentials of the critic. In this case, that is all you need to. Dennis has no standing to criticize a consultant for the way he runs his business. Case closed. Verdict Perry.

4. I have learned so many marketing lessons from Perry and to this point all of them were free.

Totally unjustified remarks by Perry. But then he will probably always be an also ran.

I read this post on my way up to family on Thanksgiving and couldn’t help but laugh. My brother and I have been Perry Marshall fans and students of your work for the past several years and now that our business (which you, Brian, and everyone at your company) have helped give us advice on is growing people are asking to “take us to lunch”. We realized that people just wanted free advice and it was not fair to those who were in our program.

I have had the pleasure to meet you once and attend your Autoresponder seminar. The fee for the seminar was more than my brother and I had ever paid for a seminar and you know it was worth more than what we paid. In fact as a result of the level of your training and coaching I judge others by the standard you have set and most fall extremely short.

The best part of your response to Dennis was ” am a STEWARD of my time and I am responsible before God for how I use it”. If more people took this approach the world would be a better place.

Thanks for rewarding those of us who pay for your services (it is always worth it) and thanks for the free advice on the website and your book(again worth 10 times what it costs at amazon.com).

Perry,

I agree if the point of a conversation with you is to help someone else solve their business problem, you ought to get paid. Yet, you did have a choice, and the way you handled the situation was arrogant.*

You already know that you reap what you sow, Perry.

Halbert, Kennedy, and you teach that public displays of superiority amplify the attention you get. The combination of attention and arrogance (what you sow) causes a variety of emotional reactions, such as

• desire to hire you
• jealousy
• wariness

If practicing arrogance brings you enough of the kind of customers you want, more power to you. There is nothing wrong with it – you are obviously scratching a felt need.

Your money is yours, you earned it, people are giving it to you by their choice and you should not have to justify any of it to anyone. Dennis’s comment that “greed” is causing “the problem with our economy” only shows that he doesn’t really understand how business and the economy work.

Unfortunately, I’m one of those who reacts warily. When someone is quick to display social superiority, it can indicate that the craving for attention and control is stronger than the need for substance. The way I see it, your consulting relationships are set up similarly: you get paid by the hour to shoot from the hip – a potentially win-lose proposition that can cause damage.

Remember, I’m a guy who paid for a bobsled run (and brought two additional paying clients to do the same), and none of us got what we needed or expected. We wanted our problem solved, not our money back. I guess we were on the wrong side of the 80/20 rule that time, because you never bothered to straighten it out. It worked just like Kennedy taught you, and Robert Ringer taught him: you won, we lost.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you are a fraud. Nor am I saying that because my cookies crumbled you are a complete jerk. I believe the successes you tell about in your testimonials. The reason I continue to pay to read your material is that I do learn from it.

I am saying there is a more balanced light than the one you portray, and that you reap what you sow: An “arrogance policy” makes people like me want to bring out our bones to pick. It attracts people who are OK being treated like sheep, and repels people who prefer being treated like equals. As a result, the world tends to appear warped: the population you see has more sheep, and fewer non-sheep than in reality. Its like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You are a smart and talented fellow, Perry. But your premises night be mixed around this.

If you confuse success with manipulating people though arrogance and control, then success will also conflict with justice.

I think that kind of conflict might be why you felt you needed to mention donating to starving Africans … as a sort of justification for your success. But that is irrelevant, a smoke screen which subtracts rather than adds.

MW

* Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines arrogant as “exaggerating one’s own worth or importance.”

What can I say? Anyone who can generate hundreds of responses on a blog like this deserves $725 per hour. Perry very clearly stated his response to Dennis ‘Sorry, no free lunch meetings’ and I don’t believe this was arrogant. I pay for Perry’s services and intend to pay more and more as my income increases. He posted this discussion for a very good reason and I hope it works Perry. If you’re ever in Amsterdam I’ll pay you $725 for one hour, buy your lunch and won’t even ask you for advice. It will simply be a thank you for cutting my advertising costs in half and providing me with endless streams of extremely precise, relevant and entertaining information. You are worth every cent.

Michael, in fairness to you I am posting your comment but I must take exception to something you said:

“I’m a guy who paid for a bobsled run (and brought two additional paying clients to do the same), and none of us got what we needed or expected. We wanted our problem solved, not our money back. I guess we were on the wrong side of the 80/20 rule that time, because you never bothered to straighten it out. It worked just like Kennedy taught you, and Robert Ringer taught him: you won, we lost.”

This is specifically untrue. I told both of you I would be happy to help you until you were satisfied. That was 2-3 years ago BTW. You and I had several follow-up conversations and I worked with you on a number of items. I don’t remember the specifics but I do not recall you pressing the issue further.

As for your client, I offered more help and unless I’m forgetting something significant, they did not take me up on my offer. If you truly feel that I won and you lost then I question why you are still giving me money.

Perry Marshall

Hi, Perry
I’m from Bogotá, Colombia. You deserve what get. Thank’s a lot!!! Your advice have been very useful for me. You as a christian man really show how to work for the glory of our Lord. Your work is excellent. As the Bible says: 1 Timothy 5:18 (King James Version)
“For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.”
I’m right now in a critical economic situation, but I know I’ll be seeing you soon in a conference, and I’ll gladly pay your hour advice. I’ll be praying for you and your work, thank’s a lot also because of the great labor you do in the site: http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/index.htm

May God bless you a lot

Dear Perry, I want to say you that the person that wrote you that e-mail is not right AT ALL. First, the knowledge you have you’ve paid it once (studying), and it’s your job to sell it. When I was a teacher I sold my knowledge and nobody was scandalized about it.
Second. You give all the information you have free. In your articles and newsletter. It’s enough to “listen” not only to “hear”. I try now to learn the new for me job -internet marketing. I have not money to pay the information, unfortunatelly, this is my situation today, so I have to use free possibilities. I wanted to say you (who knows, maybe you will stop it after that) your newsletter and articles have always realy valuable information -and it is the 500-karat rare diamond in the internet -to find realy valuable information, believe me, I know. Hope, you will continue your good work.

Hi Perry:
I understand how time consuming it can be when you have people pulling you from different directions wanting to “pick your brain” etc. When you spoke at this event, people paid for the time and resources you offered. Anything after that is “on the clock” so to speak. Plus in my experience having people wanting to pick my brain, they often don’t follow through on any of my suggestions to help them start their business and the avenues they can take to get started, etc. I think in all fairness, the attendees paid for your time during the duration of your speaking engagement. Anything after that, well, could be taken off-line for a fee, perhaps a reduced fee related to the speaking event. If they really want to gain access to valuable information, then they can buy 1 hour of your time for a one on one consultation. Otherwise, I think you would be spinning your wheels and wasting your time with people who most likely won’t do much with the information you provided. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Ana

Hi

I know what my Solicitor would say (Lawyer to you folks in the US) if I asked him to lunch and then sought some free legal advice – Get Lost!!

The number of people posting comments on this Forum is testament to the obvious pull Perry has. I am new to the internet business and am just on the process of reading my first Perry Marshall publication, which I am facinated with.

My goal is to achieve a sufficient level of knowledge on the subject of internet marketing to be able to benefit from one of Perry’s coaching programmes, for which, I would be happy to pay for.

Nothing is for free if you expect to make money from it and Dennis obviously expected to extract from Perry some inner secrets to immediate wealth. Well, Dennis, as you Americans say – get real!!

Free info is all over the web as I am finding out. You have to search for it!

With regards to Perry’s handling of the situation is that he was spot on. The guy’s a consultant and they charge by the hour. Just as you and I would if we had the knowledge.

Perry, if you come across my post, I look forward to the day that I am sufficiently knowledgeable to be in a position to pay you for your expert advice.

I’m not trying to side Perry on this, but I think his answer was spot on.. If I were a consultant at his calibre, I would do the same… Think of it if you are a successful a personal trainer, then the guy next door keep pestering you to be his gym partner, or just to go to gym with him every weekend or so, would you go with him?

There’s no right or wrong answer though, but I think the guy Dennis has got no right to complain whether Perry wants to entertain him or not…

Why does bad english bother you so?

Are you that small of a person.

tis bout da point, not de righting

THINK

This is why you listen to perry. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!

Learn some people skills.

And stop telling your email people how much you make.

Obviously…its a bad time for alot of people.

your doing fine…I guess you dont need my money.

Now johnny bananas will dicect my english. because if make him feel powerful.

You didnt put a cap on the Y, I am smarter.

This is my second response to this because I am amazed at some of the responses. Especially those that are critical of the way you handled Dennis’ request for lunch.

Dennis never made a request for lunch! Dennis is responding to what he read in the newsletter that followed the Oakbrook (IL) seminar. Dennis’ opinion is out there with his name on it (assuming that’s really his name)– as is mine and every other responder to this topic. Poor Dennis? No. Really.

The other diversionary aspect is the $700. What if it were $70 or $170– the amount (IMO) is irrelevant. This is why the auto repair person bills for the diagnostic (when years ago it was free)– but may credit that amount to the fee if you get the repair at his/her shop. Maybe the “me generation” is the cause and not the effect.

Someone mentioned this could be a test of engaging a market. That’s possible. It could also be a test of who is paying attention.

Why on earth would you put this on your website and ask your customers to comment about it?

Is that smart business?

Hey Perry. How about good seats at a Cubs game? Right next to Cuban. I’ll give you a chance to sell me the bob sled run:-)

Neil

Hi Perry,

Please send $10,000.00 for my reply… ; – )

Thanks for all the good you do mate!

Bill

when people talk about greed? how to make $$$$$$$ using your brain and that’s for free and i think perry is cheap per hour to take kingpin out its more god bless the world and its people

This is a extremely intelligent marketing tactic.

Read the replies. The overwhelming majority are confirming the value of Perry’s advice. That does two things. It offers social proof to others. More importantly once a person has publicly expressed their opinion of the value, they become attached to that opinion. They will then be more inclined to act in accordance with that opinion. That is when Perry offers something that fits their needs they will be a lot less price resistive.

It is brillant marketing. Everyone should understand the psychology working behind the scenes.

There is currently a post in Warrior Forum comparing between this post and Seth’s post.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/31466-perry-marshall-vs-seth-godin-thanksgiving-thoughts.html

I think they don’t have a clue. You’re absolute right. Your opinion aligns with Seth’s perfectly.

Cheers!

Comments from a “paying” customer:

Hi Perry, I took your Bobsled Run a couple of years back, unfortunately at a time when my business was in serious trouble. If you recall, I dropped out after you graciously spent some time with me one-on-one (without me asking for your call!) to discuss options to get some business in the door quickly (I am in the mortgage business). Other factors came into play and I couldn’t implement your excellent suggestions then.

At the time, I COULD have invoked your guarantee to get back my significant fee for the Run and believe me, I REALLY could have used that money then. However, I realized the value of the information I had acquired and expected to be using it some time in the future.

That future is NOW and I am reviewing all of that previous information as I migrate my business to an online model.

My main point in all of this is that Dennis doesn’t “get it.” He is an example of the “Entitlement Society” which our prosperity has lulled us into accepting as normal. The basic belief is that those who “have” should willingly give to those who don’t, even if those who have are already giving somewhere else (such as African AIDS victims) by their own choice! There is a whole lot more I could say on this topic, but I’m sure that you and your savvy readers understand.

I applaud your response to Dennis and for his sake, I hope that he read your letter and felt some shame. He can obviously afford your fee by his own admission and if he was entrepreneurial at his core, he would get off of his butt and start reading all of your free material … and THEN pay your fee if he couldn’t get his answer from there.

However, from his letter, my guess is that this is probably not the outcome.

Anyway Perry, thanks for keeping me on your list (like you’d ever let any one of us drop off!). At some point I’ll probably be a paying client again and would love to finish out that Bob Sled someday. I hope that you had a very Happy Thanksgiving and that your friends in Africa enjoyed theirs, too. Keep up the good work.

P.S. Dennis, use a spellchecker. THAT is some free advice you can implement now.

It’s obvious Dennis has J-O-B and has self-limited his earning potential through his attitude about how to leverage his time for the highest earning.

He has decided part of his ‘income’ will be the feelings he gets when he gives free advice, so he expects others to do so as well – he’s operating from a different financial perspective.

Perry has a BUSINESS and has unlimited earning potential because he understands his value and how to deliver it for maximum price.

He has decided his INCOME is maximized when his time has a dollar figure attached. I imagine he’s making considerably more than Dennis.

I just learned this lesson the hard way – did some ‘free consulting’ with the idea that the two gents I did it with would barter with me…I deliver expertise, they help me network into their groups to sell more.

Turns out I was the only one that delivered on my commitment – can’t even get a return email now.

Thanks, Perry and Dennis, for helping me see the light.

No more free consulting over lunch! This isn’t a J-O-B and I’m not hoping to earn $100,000.

S

You made a clear statement about your boundaries. I left Cuba to be able to do that. I have every right to do the opposite and give a free lunch away to every prospect if I want to (my friend’s parish priest does that right before he goes for the fund-raising kill!) but I’d probably lose my shirt.

Keep up the good work.

Jorge

Perry,
I’m continually amaized at the quality and quantity of information you freely give away as well as with how you over-deliver on the products that I’ve purchased from you. And very grateful that you’ve chosen to deliver much of it “in bulk” rather than as one-to-one because if it were only available on an individual basis, I never would have been exposed to it.

So, thank you for valuing your time so that I could have a little bit of it, too.

Hope your Thanksgiving was pleasant and Merry Christmas.
Joyce

Perry,

I haven’t met you and I absolutely loved reading this post.

I look at it like this, I work a 9 to 5 to take care of my family and those that are less fortunate. If my boss were to ask me to stay until 9 p.m. to continue to work for “free”. I wouldn’t stand for it!

Your point rang true and is correct, and I hope that Dennis can one day understand your point.

Sometimes people allow their emotions and anger to cloud their vision and they aren’t able to see the “Big Picture”.

The truth of the matter is, you wouldn’t be able to live a life of abundance and help others if you did not discipline yourself in knowing the value of your time and energy. If you were wreckless in that, then others that depend on you or could depend on you would suffer, and that I don’t call greed. I consider that being a responsible business minded and caring individual.

It must be a pretty lonely world when your only meal companions are those that pay for the privilege.

Dear Perry
I agree with those who regard Dennis as a bit of a prat who can’t even write the English language properly. As you say, advice is what you sell and you wouldn’t expect shopkeepers to give away their retail goods. HOWEVER, from the length and defensiveness of your response, it is obvious his criticism got to you. If you really believe so strongly in the rightness of your position, all you needed to do was reply with a one-liner telling him he had a right to his views. It would have been much more dignified.

Perry.
You have given many good “excuses” for your response to those requesting to pick your brain. However, only one was needed.
The truth is, as you mentioned, it is in their best interest that you charge them.

We all do what we do to serve the people we are meant to serve. However, far too often we forget about the best interests of the people we serve when we consider price.

It was not greed that led you to respond that way. What few people would understand, is that it was from a higher level of service that you responded that way. You know that their ROI would be greater if they made a serious commitment to change.

In professional services, there is nothing more important than customer loyalty. Customer loyalty can only be cultivated from Value. Value can only be measured by results. Results only happen when the student (customer; reader; colleague, employee, etc.) follows through.

If your students don’t follow through on your advice, then that $725/rate has very little value to you. You have wasted that hour. You could have been better served by not getting paid one cent for that hour and preparing for a meeting with a half hour client committed to following through.

Free advice has no value, as you stated in your response.

Whatever words of wisdom you shared with people at a free lunch would have no value. it would just be a nice social conversation. No notes, no recorders, simply a bunch of excited students who can’t wait to tell the world they had lunch with you.

As you know, it would have been a complete waste of time for all, including you.

PS- I once had an idea for a $100,000 coaching program. Not for my benefit, but for the benefit of the students. Can you imagine the results that would come out of a $100,000 investment? Can you imagine the big thinking that would generate? Can you imagine the overall effect on the people that would benefit from that kind of big thinking?

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all that read this.

Michael J Stone

Perry,

I had a similar situation happen to me this past week. I am in Industrial Sales and a customer of mine called my manager and wanted to be assigned a new rep for his account. I have been in sales for 20 years in a lot of different industries and have never had this happen before. This particular customer was always negative, and I remember the last comment he made to me was “If you are looking to sell something you came to the wrong place”. Nothing gets a commission based sales person fired up like a comment like that! When I heard that I fired him in my mind and stopped going to see him.

Anyway, after several months of not seeing me he made the call to my manager. After my bruised ego healed I checked how much he had purchased from me in the last three years and it was $1,100. That is about $77 in commission I made from this account over three years! I had been there about six times and spent about an hour each visit there listening to how the world has screwed this guy. That is 12.83/hour this customer was worth. I spent more in gas getting to him than the customer was worth. I also usually left the account feeling depressed after listening to his “woe is me” tales.

Most everything that you said about the person that wrote the nasty gram to you was true about this guy, especially the fact about not respecting that my time has a real value to it.

I had never fired a customer before, but it sure felt great after it was done!

God Bless You!

Jeff Clear

I was with you for about two-thirds of your response, Perry.

I’m a financial coach and I understand two of your points vividly: People don’t act on free advice and that you’re selling your time/expertise.

On the other hand, I’m often looking for good sources of information and referrals for my clients of all types. And to me that those people need to be amazing at what they do and compassionate about how they interact. And that’s where I feel this falls short. Not in the quality of what you’re saying, but in the tone.

Bunches of people have said similar things but this was a learning for me about what to say and where to say it. I’ve never heard of you before and was referred here by a professional organization primarily because one of our members was totally infuriated by your response to this letter.

So it’s a great reminder about flies and vinegar. I would love to see this handled more elegantly. Clearly from your following and their comments you have that ability. I hope you use it to make yourself and others shine.

Thank you,
Briana Cavanaugh

I suspect you don’t realize just how GRATEFUL you should be to
have that many people WANTING to get acquainted with you, Perry.

I’m your fan since 1997, and won’t change that – but hey, all
you need to do to protect your time is say, “No, sorry” – NOT,
“Ok, but you’ll have to pay me $X”

That’s the bit that likely provoked Dennis to call you ‘greedy’.

What if all 100,000 were willing to pay you $725 – how would you
handle THAT?

Now think – what if NONE would?

“We are privileged to lead our tribe. For a while. After that,
they move on.” – Seth Godin.

Words to ponder.

All success
Dr.Mani

i guess some people should’ve grow up, be an adult, and really learn how to take “no” for the answer.
grow up dude; it’s through getting hit by several “no-no’s” that you’ll eventually ended up with a couple “yes” for the answer.
just don’t take the answer ‘no’ personally, unless you would want to develop a terrible habit of resenting every single person on earth that says “no” to you, no matter how they say it.

and perry,… love your work man, they’re brilliant. better start saving some to learn from a gifted guru just like you:)

God bless.

Perry: No Thank you. Sometimes that is all that is required. In some cultures it is considered rude to eat and not offer to share. If you do not wish to share “No, thank you” would be sufficient.

PS It is right to not give advice at these lunches, dinners and snacks.

PPS It is also your prerogative to keep is professional and avoid and “friendliness”

PPPS What you did was not “Bullshit” but your attitude about it did seem arrogant

Perry,

As a fellow member “of the Planet,” kudos on the excellent execution of RM strategy and tactics. The results were exactly as would be predicted and expected to be shown.

To those unfamiliar, Perry has (from my view) intentionally deployed advanced techniques, which is only one more reason why you might want to continue to learn from Perry. He and his team are well-worth following, the information highly valuable.

Respective to MW’s post, interesting that you are negative towards Halbert, Kennedy and Ringer; and define arrogance relative to Perry when you apparently utilize the formers’ teachings on your own website — specifically billing yourself as “the foremost expert on sales process improvement” — sorry, never heard of you before now, but will seek to learn from your expertise in the future. Perhaps Perry is not alone by your and the dictionary’s defined parameters…?

Perry, thank you for your insights, lessons and information, that given freely as lead generation, and that by purchase. You don’t need me to tell you that you are a “Real Deal,”
but it is recognized by others.

Best Wishes to Your Continued Successes!

Perry,

This very interesting discussion opens an interesting question for me:

Do people who are in principle willing to pay the hourly fee ask you to invite you to lunch for picking your brain like the people on this seminar or do they rather ask something like:

“Perry, I know you have a long waiting list for payed consultations.
But, since you are here, and because it is lunchtime, would you be interested to give me a payed consultation right now, over lunch? Of course I’ll pay the lunch in addition to your fee.”

If the former is true, then it makes sense to make an offer for the payed consultation like you did.

If the latter is true, then it is probably easier to simply say “no” to people who you know will not buy anyways instead of making an offer to them.

It’s like people entering some query into Google will never buy anything while people entering another query into Google will buy quite frequently.

You don’t bid on keywords which don’t bring sales.
You just say no.
(to avoid a cost which will never result in a benefit.)

So with Google Adwords we have learned that there is often a strong correlation between what people ask and whether they are willing to purchase. The difficulty is in getting to know that correlation. That’s why we test and track everything: To find out the correlation between people’s questions and their mindset.

In person-to-person interaction such strong correlations exist, too. I am pretty sure.
But similar to Google Adwords, it is difficult to learn that correlation.

And what makes it different to Google Adwords, is that in person-to-person interaction, you have way more information than just a few words: facial expression, your own gut feeling in reaction to subconscious minds communicating with each other, …

Also, costs in person-to-person interaction are often not financial costs but rather costs of your own personal energy in reaction to what people say or do, or the direct cost of time, or more indirect effects like word-of-mouth etc.
(And all of these things can also be a benefit: energy can rise, time can be well invested, word-of-mouth can be positive…)

***

Second thought:

If a person clearly tells you that he/she wants a payed consultation as in my example above, then that person is making the offer and you just have to say yes. Much easier than you making the offer to somebody who you don’t know whether he/she is interested.

Probably similar to the difference between cold-calling and getting people to contact you first.

***

Best wishes to you,

Chris

P.S.: Why am I thinking about that?
I think I may be in a similar situation like you some time in the future.
And feeling prepared for such situations removes some fears of success.

Kevin,

> Respective to MW’s post, interesting that you are negative
> towards Halbert, Kennedy and Ringer; and define arrogance
> relative to Perry when you apparently utilize the formers’
> teachings on your own website — specifically billing yourself
> as “the foremost expert on sales process improvement”
> — sorry, never heard of you before now, but will seek to learn
> from your expertise in the future. Perhaps Perry is not alone
> by your and the dictionary’s defined parameters…?

You are correct in your observations of Perry, Kevin. As far as what I said about Halbert, Kennedy, and Ringer, I didn’t mean to single out Perry, they all use public statements of superiority. And you are right, I do as well.

There is a critical distinction everyone needs to make however.

Presenting yourself as superior is not the same thing as being arrogant. Arrogance is only when you act as though more important than you are.

Claims of superiority have dramatic effects – either positive or negative. (The reason this post has such attention is that it deals with BOTH of these effects simultaneously.)

The positive effect:
People need to know the truth of someone’s superior positioning. They need to know what they can and should believe. Halbert, Kennedy, and Ringer (and Marshall as well) all point out the importance of having evidence of one’s claims. Obviously, achieving recognition as the superior one brings out the desire to buy in some members of the audience. People untrained in direct response marketing are generally unaware of how critical it is to educate the audience of their superiority, or of how to go about doing it.

The negative side:
Clumsy superiority claims can make others feel subservient or inferior (thus the suspicion of arrogance). It can make some in the audience wary and wonder if the speaker is trying to take advantage. (Further, if you think the person hasn’t treated you fairly in the past that feeling is aggravated. I admit that was my feeling, which Perry has since corrected for me by the way, and which I appreciate. I should have gone to him directly instead of on this forum, so for that I apologize.)

“Exaggerating one’s worth or importance,” is the textbook way of “bootstrapping” yourself into the position you aspire to. If you can live up to your own claims, it works brilliantly.

It isn’t the claim of superiority that is the problem. It is the “not living up to it” part that backfires (you appear arrogant, or worse).

Unfortunately, most direct response thought leaders have emphasized that the road to success is any kind of statement you can make the audience believe. They have de-emphasized the living up to it part. For instance, I’ve been in the audience as Kennedy taught people how to create manipulative statements that leverage their audience’s emotions, and rely on their ignorance or laziness or inability to think critically. He makes no bones about criticizing people who are sticklers about honesty. His controversial reputation is echoed in some of the comments on this thread.

I suppose if your audience is ignorant, lazy, and unable to think critically, you might not have much choice about what you have to do to influence them. However, some audiences are more educated, pro-active, and more able to think for themselves.

It is difficult to find many examples of good direct response marketing in this arena. Perry has many of those good examples, which accounts for much of his popularity.

As for my claim that I’m “the foremost expert on sales process improvement,” I stick by it. “Process Improvement” has a specific meaning in the B2B world: applying the scientific method (TQM, 6?, lean, Kaizen, etc.) I have written the most influential and widely read materials on that subject – at least as far as sales and marketing goes.

It is still a small niche, but growing.

Perry,

I do agree with Steven. It would have been nice to just say ‘No thanks’ and probably relate an excuse just to turn Dennis down politely.

And if he does become persistent then maybe you can tell him the truth as per your reply to Dennis.

I guess his opinion or his judgment on you was probably base on how he took to your reply when he invited your for lunch.

Would he have judge you differently if you had turn him down politely?

Well, I won’t know cause I wasn’t there to know if either he or you have approach each other in an impolite manner.

Respective to Michael Webb’s comments on Dan Kennedy I have to emphasize that Dan Kennedy does teach the importance of the “living up to it” part.

I regularly read his Insider’s Circle newsletter and each and every issue contains both
* examples of businesses who fail in this respect and why this is bad for them,
* examples of businesses do well in this respect and why this makes them successful.

I guess that the “living up to it” part ist just not so popular in the general audience because it means “hard work”. So Dan’s statements about “living up to it” are maybe unconsciously filtered out by many listeners.

Also, for Dan’s teaching about “living up to it”, I suggest his new book “No B.S. marketing to the affluent”.

***

Also, I think that many direct marketing teachers assume that their students already have great products and services and that they know how to treat their customers respectfully.

They base their teaching on the assumption that the marketing is the only part which needs a fix in their student’s businesses.

Maybe Dan Kennedy has done it that onesided way many years in the past, too. I cannot tell.

Nowadays he teaches a lot about overall business aspects, very much including the “living up to it” part.

I think most of you are missing the point completely. It has nothing to do with ‘greed’ or how much of Marshall’s time he actually donates, and so on.

It’s business, and the more Perry Marshall can charge, the more you can charge.

I don’t know Perry Marshall; I ‘met’ him through his book. No doubt, he knows his business inside and out.

But in addition to knowing his business, he got lucky (Let’s not forget, luck is the biggest success factor in any endeavor). Maybe he was in the right place at the right time, maybe he knew the right people, maybe he knew the right buttons to push. Who knows? But in the process, he got ‘famous’.

Regardless, he knew that one of the sure paths to failure is to diminish the value of what he does – by giving it away.

And that’s the key: perceived/enhance-diminished value.

Each of you wants to earn by selling what you ‘know’ by selling your ‘good ideas’. Sorry to break this to you, but a good idea is worthless. Only execution adds value.

So let Perry Marshall charge and earn all that he can. Because for every dollar more he can charge, that’s one dollar more I can charge.

Here’s the formula:
“Smart” “famous” Perry Marshall (rightly or wrongly, who cares?) charges $750 an hour.

That allows someone just as “smart” but not as famous to charge $500 an hour.

Which allows someone of lesser stature to charge $250 an hour.

I have been producing traditional advertising for thirty years and I am as good as anyone alive. Believe me when I say, that — in the eyes of most companies — your competition is not Perry Marshall charging high rates; but recent college graduates thrilled to receive 18 bucks an hour.

Quit complaining. Quit being jealous of someone doing better than you. Quit confusing making the world a better place with earning a living. They rarely overlap. Earn first, give second. It doesn’t work the other way around.

Have no doubt, few people are going to pay you more than you are worth – which is what they THINK you are worth.

The more Perry Marshall charges (or the more people think he charges) the more everyone else can earn.

I think he should increase his rates; I need to earn more.

Bill Cruse

Perry,

You present yourself as a Godly man, so I feel open to express to you one thing that I’ve learned over the years: You can’t outgive God. Perhaps you and Dennis both would learn something from reading Being a Sharefish in a Selfish World.

hi perry-
I already commented on the password protected area. Just wanted to say I really like the blog, and new homepage design. Very slick. Bet you’ll get more organic traffic this way.
adam

I think your critic is mixing greed with arrogance. You should not say that you would have lunch with someone if they paid you $725. All you had to say was no thank you….I can’t…. as I have plans.
There….now I’m a critic.

Hi Perry, I think you were great in your response to that man. It seemed to me that, he was in a little “greed of wanting something freee.” I don’t always like to pay for things that could be given, and I don’t always like to do the dishes after a good meal…te he, you all know that one, and if not you’re missing something.

The point is, is that we all need to give, and there is no problem with giving Perry some fees for your freedom. Money is a powerful tool that can do that if it is used right.

So blah, for all those that refused to graciously put out, for all they have been given

Smiles Ya’ll

Perry:

Great way to stir the controversy pot (tremendous free gift in that alone)! Like a page from the DK play book. You are a master of the content mix, giving away enough to help people make some money to afford to spend some 1-1 time with you. Congrats on what you’ve accomplished.

You do give away so much free stuff, the problem is, like the Bible, you need to learn to interpret it and find the personal take-aways. Appears Dennis has a ways to go in that department, otherwise he wouldn’t have commented as he did.

I’ll have to remember your responses for the future, because they were spot on. Thanks for making us think, which is something so few people really want to do.

Next time you find yourself in the far north of Canada, how about if I take you for a coffee? Two stipulations: call ahead & no talk about promotion. Just a chance to unwind and get out of the cold. After all, everyone needs some downtime.

A colleague and friend, Adam Kreitman of Words That Click, pointed me to this debate and asked me what I thought, because he knows my policy is to meet for an hour with anyone, anywhere, any time for any reason and he was curious about my take.

About Dennis’ position that Perry should give his time free. Simply put, that’s not your decision to make — it’s Perry’s. Of course the nice thing about your unsolicited advice is that it cost Perry absolutely nothing to ignore it. And, by the way, just because the guy decided in this instance not to give, that doesn’t mean he’s a greedy bastard. Stop jumping to garbage conclusions just because you’re mad you weren’t able to take some of his time and advice for yourself.

About Perry’s position on getting paid for his time and advice. In the book “The Go-Giver,” by Bob Burg and John David Mann, the second law of stratospheric success is “Your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them.”

By example, a life coach charging $200 an hour and booked solid can make about $400,000 a year. She delivers huge value to each individual client, but hits her income wall at 2,000 hours and whatever the market will bear for a maximum hourly rate.

Oprah Winfrey, on the other hand, delivers life advice tidbits to millions of people each week on TV. No one would ever say Oprah’s value is anywhere near the value of a dedicated life coach, yet she’s the bazzilionaire, because while she’s serving people only slightly, she’s serving millions instead of dozens.

If Perry has people lined up and waiting to pay $750 an hour for his personal time, it seems to me he has an opportunity to create a mass delivery method — a membership or something — that will allow him to serve tidbits to hundreds of thousands. Yes, the value will be less than Perry in person, but as long as he delivers more value than he takes in payment — another law in “The Go-Giver” — everyone wins.

What was it I said about unsolicited advice?

Anyway, I applaud Perry for making his decision, voicing it to the world in a confidently arrogant manner and not giving a hoot that 10 percent of those who hear it will vilify him for his thinking.

Fear not the reprisal of others lest you deprive the world of your thoughts.

Think away, Perry!

Gill Wagner
Honest Selling

This is Dennis I am the one who wrote about Greed.
My point is this, of course Perry has a right to charge for everything he does, that was not my point, my point was it would be a great thing if once in a while Perry and these other gurus did some pro bono work, period

Hi Dennis,

I just couldn’t leave your comment alone. I agree with your sentiment that it “would be a great thing if Perry and these other gurus did some pro bono work”. I count many of the “gurus” as personal friends, and I have never met a more generous bunch of hard working people.

By now, if you’ve read all the other comments from Perry’s friends and customers, you know that he also does a lot of pro bono work. Including even staying late the night of that conference. Incidently, did you bother to stay?

Frankly, if the email posted from you here is accurate, you might consider offering Perry an apology for your judgmental letter. You must feel by now that it was at least rash, if not downright offensive.
Regards,
Tom Hoobyar

First, whether you agree with him or not, Dennis get’s an “atta-boy” from me for just responding to this post with all that was said. I think most would turn tail and run.

That being said, Dennis, I agree with Tom Hoobyar. The tone of your letter does not match the tone of your explanation of it. I can appreciate that you had emotion the first time.

But, if you really mean to say “it would be a great thing if once in a while . . . period.”

Then there is much in that letter that needs to be recanted (“You can rationalize all you want, but your response was arrogant and greedy. Let me summarise (sic), what you did was Bull Shit.”), for starters.

If you are not willing to apologize for the provocative tone of your initial letter, than this explanation comes off as rationalization and, sadly, disingenuous.

If saving face is more important than making amends, I guess at the very least you can take comfort for your part in starting a valuable and educational discussion.

This debate has been hugely interesting for me to read. I am in the middle of promoting my first business coaching program and it has made me really reflect on the filters people use in relation to money and value; the balance between generosity and profitability; and openness to feedback.

From a leadership perspective (my bread and butter) one of the challenges is that as we become more and more senior in our organization or community we are less likely to receive good feedback.

If Perry is to continue to develop and grow and as a leader, contrary feedback is critical (as is self-awareness that he has a few “hot buttons” and what that might mean for how he approaches realizing his vision).

Without knowing my hot buttons, I am more likely to have a knee jerk response rather than paying adequate attention to what it might teach me.

From a personal perspective, this has blog post has tipped me over the line into becoming one of Perry’s customers (after receiving stuff for free for a couple of years). Why? Not because I strongly agree with his view but because I have at last seen a bit of the passion that goes with the expertise and value.

Wow, a lot of people don’t “get it”.

It’s time management 101 here. He makes a living by charging for his time/wisdom/advice.

You wouldn’t work for free, so why expect Perry to? Oh that’s right, because it would benefit YOU and help YOU out. Disregard the fact that it is taking away time from Perry. You know, that ONE thing in life you never get back.

Besides, it’s not like Perry never gives away free advice.

Whatever, selfishness is at play here from the complainers.

Is Dennis the next Joe The Plumber?

A guy who came out of nowhere to become a pseudocelebrity?

Hey Dennis. When is your book coming out?

I am so tired of this topic…

I don’t get why a bunch of sycophants have to heap crap on this Dennis guy… He didn’t expect this to become public, you guys were not there.

Where I grew up, if one person says a thing to another, thinking it’s between them, it should stay between them unless both are cool with it becoming public.

From the language used in most posts here, I’d suspect that a great many people here “shoot from the hip” with what they say… so I’m sure each and every one of you has said something to someone somewhere that the rest of the tribe here would trash. Grow up.

At the end of the day, we surround ourselves with the kind of people we are.

Frankly I’m delighted to not have anything to do with most of the posters on here.

Michael

Hi Perry,

Reading over this post for the first time. It was actually brought to my attention a few days ago in another forum from another angry guy.

Now that I know the full story, i know exactly how you’ve been left feeling.

You had already put out your best value and advice in your original talk–and these people were asking for MORE for free.

You were tired, you had better things to do with your time, and when you’re done working, you want the freedom to stop. You were just stating that if they wanted you to keep working, you wanted to be “on the clock” so to speak.

I would have declined the invitation too. Good work Perry.

Jim Yaghi

Perry,

I read through the first 10 or 12 responses, then I saw the scroll bar on the right had barely budged off the top right corner…this page was longer than a sales letter!

So I scrolled to the bottom just to say “Bravo, Perry!” and thanks for allowing me to leave the link to my URL on this great page that many people, including Google, will read or spider.

Anyone who gets your emails know you give away LOTS of extremely relevant, useful and revenue-generating material. No free lunch.

Perry,

You are my favorite online marketer, but I have to admit your response made you sound like a jerk. It really seems to be a no win situation for you. I understand your position. No one would expect me to give away the widgets I sell for free, so why should you be expected to give away the advice you sell for free.

Maybe you could have just mentioned you already had lunch plans?

or

Why not just sell a special VIP seminar ticket that includes lunch with Perry? This way everyone knows at the beginning that lunch is only for those who paid, and no one has to be embarrassed by you making them feel like scum.

Right on Perry!, you cant please em all. Your time is your widget and people cant expect you to give it away free.

Folks!! Give it up. Everyone, including Perry, should just try and be a little more polite. It is the season; it is always the season.

PS Anyone want to invite me for lunch?

PPS When clients cannot afford my rate I often tell them that I work for food….

You are assuming that he does not do pro bono work
right now … as for the other guru’s , have you ever asked them what they are doing ?

And even if they or Perry don’t do pro bono, who are you to decide what it is they should be doing with their time ?

Like the man says, he has books available … let them read them, and read his web site. I get free info from Perry all the time.

Most folks just are too damn lazy to really
dig in and get it done.

Peace Out …

Steve

Your minutes are seeds.

Where you plant your seeds will determine the quality and quantity of the harvest.

Some types of ground will produce poorly:
people in full time jobs
people looking for a little extra
people not open to learning
people that don’t take action
people wanting to replace their job
people that aren’t smart enough
irrational or unreasonable people
older people (based on performance)
younger people (based on experience and insight)
people without skills
people with ineffective mindsets
non objective people
people that make bad decisions
people unwilling to spend money or time

Some types of ground will yield more:
smart people
action taking people
people that make good decisions
people that can recognize when they are wrong and then change to match reality
people that can recognize value based on experience and judgment
people with skills directly related to implementation

for Perry to spend time planting seeds in dry sandy ground would be a waste.

You will be rewarded based on 2 things:
1) The problem you solve
solve expensive problems
are people looking for your solution
how much are they willing to pay
etc.

2) Who you solve it for
solve the problems of people willing to spend money

Perry, it is entirely up to you to do whatever you want with your time. Charge for it, give it free, slope off, do the things that you have to do for family, friends, clients, whatever. But, I guess you know that well anyway.

As an ex-sales guy I guess the key to closing the deal (to get your time) was to make it more interesting for you. Now if a guy came up to you and wanted to discuss a business proposition (it could still of been his business you were discussing) and at the same time wanted to take you to lunch at your favourite restaurant. Now that would have been a whole lot more tempting no