Recently I spoke at an event where numerous people asked me to meet with them, have lunch, etc. I responded: Sorry, no free lunch meetings – if you want to meet with me you need to pay my hourly fee.
I mentioned this in an email and got this reply from Dennis:
Perry
I love your stuff, you are obviously a very talented online marketer. In addition I bet your a good person, I don’t know but I get the feeling you are. However one thing really bothered me that you said in your newsletter dated Tuesday October 28th.
As far as I can deduct you where part of a program that went late into the night that people paid for and after it was over several people wanted to take you to lunch etc, to pick your brain. You response was sure, just pay me my hourly rate. Now I’m all for people getting paid for there time, God knows if you say high to a lawyer your going to get a bill. Wlth that in mind there is such a thing as going to far. It’s called GREED. It’s what the me generation did to this countries economy today. It’s the reason our economy is in such a mess.
I have been here for 58 years and have met many successful people, everyone of these people that I have asked to take to lunch and chat never charged me a dime. And myself being a very successful sales person earning over $100 K per year since 1974 have always given freely to others who asked. My opinion regaring your reponse to a request to do lunch was not being a smart business person, it was greed with a capital G. Come on, lets get real here if this kind of greed does not stop this country is headed for the dumpster.
Can you imagagine having to pay everyone who you asked for advice ? Why not put a hold on the greed and give a little back without getting paid for it. Even the blood sucking lawyers do probono work, even high priced doctors volunteer there skill to help people who can’t afford medical care. Even old John D Rockefeller realised his greed and started giving his money away. Then theres Perry Marshall he won’t go to lunch with eager students and share his knowledge without getting paid. You can rationalize all you want, but your response was arrogant and greedy. Let me summarise, what you did was Bull Shit.
Dennis
This was my reply to Dennis:
Dennis,
Thanks for your note and I can appreciate how my comment made you feel. Yes if someone told me 20 years ago I’d be charging people $700 for lunch and turning away people asking for help, I might have felt the same way as you. As you wrote your email I think you felt more and more angry about it all the time.
My wife read your email and said, “Perry, this guy apparently doesn’t know how many people want to take you to lunch.”
Dennis, I have over 100,000 people on my email list. You have no idea how many people email my office and ask questions – hundreds and hundreds every month. I could EASILY spend all day dispensing free advice. The demand for it it ENDLESS. I could spend every single breakfast, lunch and dinner time slot dispensing free advice and the line would never stop.
At the meeting, had I responded to all those requests I would’ve been out to lunch every day this week dispensing free advice. Remember: I’m not a salesman. I’m a consultant. Advice, not widgets, is what I sell. When you were a salesman you didn’t give away your goods for free and you didn’t feel guilty if they expected you to and you wouldn’t feel guilty for saying no.
There are several reasons why I don’t dispense free advice:
-It would be unfair to those who pay for it, and there are many who do
-People almost NEVER act on free advice, especially if it requires them to do something uncomfortable – so what’s the point in dispensing it?
-If people want free information there are hundreds of pages of free articles and MP3’s on my website and it’s good stuff
-If I gave away my knowledge I would not be able to be generous to those who truly are in need.
You accuse me of being greedy and not being generous. You do not know that. You do not know me at all. You have no business making such judgments. You do not know how many people and/or organizations I DO give free advice to. You do not know who or what I give my money to and it’s none of your business anyway.
Just know this: If I gave away free advice I would have no money to give to AIDS orphans in Africa.
So given that I have people lined up to pay me money (for example if you want a 1 day consultation it has to be booked 1-3 months in advance; phone consults are booked 2-4 weeks in advance) why should I allow people to cut in line and pay nothing?
Would that be right?
Finally, most of the questions people would ask me are already answered on my website or in my products. Most of the business ideas people pitch me with are a waste of time. People who have not read my books or website first usually wouldn’t understand the answer if I gave it to them.
I am known all around the world for my expertise and my time is valuable. I am a STEWARD of my time and I am responsible before God for how I use it. To give it away indiscriminately would be irresponsible and wasteful.
I will give my time to people who earn it and that is why I am then able to be generous with people who need it. Hungry children in Africa need help more than well-fed Americans who are trying to solve their business problems. If they want free advice, they can ask someone else.
When people pay for my time, they get value. In life you usually get what you pay for, and when you pay me $725 an hour [note: my rate has risen since this was written, it is now $4,000 per hour] you get your money’s worth. My job is to deliver that value and make sure that knowledge is put to use for maximal effect to ALL involved – my customers, myself, and the causes that are dear to my heart.
Sincerely,
Perry Marshall
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About the Author
Perry Marshall has launched two revolutions in sales and marketing. In Pay-Per-Click advertising, he pioneered best practices and wrote the world's best selling book on Google advertising. And he's driven the 80/20 Principle deeper than any other author, creating a new movement in business.
He is referenced across the Internet and by Harvard Business Review, The New York Times, INC and Forbes Magazine.
421 Comments on “Perry’s Greed”
Perry –
I meet people every week for lunch (not from a 100,000 person list, but from a 300 person list) and can point to $1000+ in business every month for the restaurant that hosts those lunches.
I’ve never done 100 people for lunch, but our peak is something like 31. Everyone pays for their own lunch and everyone gets introduced and everyone is out of there by 1:15pm.
It should not be hard to generate $700 worth of value over lunch, if you have the right format and the right people. It’s an awful format for one on one consulting, but you do have to eat, and there’s some joy in not eating a sandwich alone at your desk.
Perry,
You are a professional and entirely within your right to charge your regular fee for a luncheon session with a client or prospective client. I don’t know what conversations or negotiations ensued prior to your lunch, but if this charge had been made clear to the person prior to the lunch, it’s fair. People don’t like surprises. This issue is not about greed. It’s about communication-communication-communication.
All the best,
Donna
Donna,
I think you misunderstood what happened. It seems that you thought Perry DID HAVE LUNCH with Dennis, and that he then asked for $1,000+ for his time. This is why you think Perry and Dennis failed to communicate properly before the lunch.
But this is wrong. Perry DID NOT HAVE LUNCH with Dennis. Dennis asked for the lunch, but Perry declined (said no) by saying that IF THEY DID have lunch together, the man would have to pay for his time.
By the way, I agree with those who have suggested that reining in the impulse to “tell it like it is” might have resulted in a smoother relationship with this potential client.
I also agree that the man who wanted lunch did not realize the dynamics inherent in his request. In his defense, let it be said that his mind simply needed to be properly oriented to the “economic lifestyle” (if that’s the right phrase) of the person he was talking to. Perry has positioned himself so that he is no longer in the same socioeconomic universe he was in 30 years ago (the affable guy you can casually invite out to lunch without too much trouble).
Nevertheless, I disagree with those who question “why this had to be done in public.” Why do I disagree? Because this is a public exercise in thought-shifting.
So many people are completely unaware of the lifestyle differences between making a little money, enough money, or a lot of money. They think “lifestyle” has to do with spending. But it has to do with how you attach money-making obligations to almost every moment of your time. If you’ve never lived with or among people who have extreme wealth, you have no idea what you’re asking for when you say you’d like to be wealthy.
Thanks go to both gentlemen for drawing the line so that people’s minds here would be shaken to the core. If Perry had simply been “tactful,” and if the exchange had been kept private, this teachable moment would not have occurred.
Since Perry has become successful, he must have learned how to be tactful. Therefore, this whole exchange (which most of us can’t verify as having really happened) underscores how you can self-sabotage at any point in your career … with the whole house of cards tumbling down around your feet. A word to the wise …
Dennis, 58 years on the planet and you never found it important enough to learn how to write proper English? It makes you seem, well, uneducated. With 58 years under your belt, you must realize that you have less time ahead of you than behind you. Same thing with Perry. Time is money. Why would you give it away indiscriminately? Something tells me that you are railing against somebody else’s greed – maybe your own.
Hey Perry,
You’ve set boundaries for yourself, and you enforce them. That’s to your credit and it is harder to do than most people realize.
David Olgivy talked about how his partner left the office everyday at 5 p.m. no matter what was going on. That takes some b*lls, to follow through and be consistent.
And, you are being consistent.
Sure, it’d be easy to roll over and bend the rules, but it goes against how you’ve chosen segment your time–and I’d imagine when you have “free” time, you’d just as soon spend it doing things of your choosing.
(marketing lesson: 80/20 anyone?)
You’ve earned that, and it’s something many of us value: time and resources to give toward people of our choosing, with a healthy dose of self-direction.
What other people think of any of us is none of our business, as the old saying goes, and if you fall for everything, you’ll ultimately stand for nothing.
Good on you, Perry. I think it’s called “tough love” in the old school…
All the best,
John
Perry,
I read all your emails and learn more from those than any other marketer out there. So, you are giving free advice but as you said most don’t follow it. As Dennis I guess knows, it is a free country and you can do what you please. The government being so wasteful is the reason we are in all this trouble, has nothing at all to do with the small business owner.
They’re not going to see it this way, but the greed is on the part of the folks wanting to pick your brain for free. You just got done speaking to them, sharing your expertise, and yet they think it’s your duty to continue to give for free. I think their offer should have been just lunch, without any of their own (greedy) ulterior motives, as nice gesture of thanks. Now that would have been class. But that’s not how things are done any longer in our cheap, self-entitled Walmart society. And you had the audacity to be perfectly honest with them and assertive about your boundaries. You absolutely selfish beast, you (NOT!). The greed is in their expectation that you are obligated to them. It’s THAT kind of greed that is heading our country “into the dumpster.”
Tricky…yet beautifully designed. I believe this is less about the eithics/reasons of charging for lunch and more about the tools to use to get people to click and give up their email address….just a thought.
Hi Perry,
“Let me take you out to lunch”… Dennis (and Federico) made it sound like picking your brain for advice wasn’t on the agenda or even a consideration.
Ol’ Abe said it best: “A lawyer’s [consultant’s] stock in trade is his time and advice.”
You gave an honest and thoughtful answer to an emotional question.
Frankly, the value you provide in your emails and newsletters continually astounds me.
I was a customer of perry’s Bobsled coaching and iam happy with the way our business is running! So i believe any serious person would so something serious when they need to take a serious business decision. Just picking up brains during lunch is such a LAME and LAZY thought for that matter. I appreciate perry for his polite reply! Imagine how would Donald trump would have reacted to that request! LOL I personally hate to see perry among a group of people sitting fat, asking silly questions, laughing loud, BULLSHIT! They need to pay for what the value of advice is worth!
For that email i’d have fired Dennis from my customer list or any list!
Perry
I bought the book and study all the email stuff you send me all the time and my knowledge of Internet marketing has increased many fold. Unfortunately, I still don’t know everything!
Imagine you were a struggling actor and Robert De Niro offered to have lunch with you if you paid for his time. Would you go? I would.
I would gladly pay you $700 an hour to spend time with you but I wouldn’t waste it eating. How can you talk with your mouth full?
Anyway it would have to be McDonalds as I live in England I would have to make the airfare up somehow.
Chris Lozetsky
I have to agree with the “Robert De Niro” analogy. If a young actor was serious about their craft, and if Robert De Niro said that he’d spend lunch with them for a consult fee, I believe most would BORROW the money to spend even 15 minutes with him!
Two points were brought to my attention via this post:
1. If a person is a professional consultant, then it’s only right for them to charge a fee. As mentioned, consultants get paid (Very good money!) to share their advice with others. Therefore, giving away valuable advice for free would undercut one’s professional earnings.
2. There’s ALWAYS two sides to every story. I could understand the frustration of the letter writer, because he earnestly believes in the power and the need of “good deeds”. However, I do believe that Perry is doing right by himself to charge consulting fees. Again, if a person’s profession is to dispense advice, they’d undercut themselves financially by giving away free advice. If Perry kept giving away high-value advice for free, then his professional market value would become diluted!
Remember: Products or services are priced as they are, based upon their perceived value.
HOWEVER, I might have phrased my answer as, “I’m sorry, as a professional consultant, I charge a fee for my consulting time. However, I DO offer free advice via my website. You can even sign up on my website to receive lots of great advice and information that gets delivered right to your email address”.
This is the same message, with a more palatable delivery.
Greed? Greed is not just wanting but EXPECTING free advice from a busy guy who already gives away a lot, and has worked his tail off to become an authority in his field!
I think one of the most important points Perry made was the fact that it was easy for Dennis to go to lunch and give free advice because that wasn’t what he was selling. if someone asked for a free one of whatever widget he was selling, the answer almost certainly what have been an emphatic no! especially if he was asked all of the time. How can he judge you for not giving what you sell away for free?
The spoken word and the written word do not always come across the same way. In reading the remarks it did seem a bit over done and lacked a little tact that could have been exercised.
However, I do agree that a consultant should be paid for their time, albeit at a seminar or lunch. So if the purpose of publicizing this is to gain something, I believe Dennis needs a better understanding of how a consultant earns his money and Perry should use a bit more diplomacy in declining a lunch invitation.
Perry, as someone who is constantly being accused of lacking tact, I feel I must tell you, I absolutely love your writing style.
Sometimes I think I am seeing my brain in print
Perry,
I completely understand your position. I’m nowhere near as successful as you are, but I nonetheless receive coffee/lunch invites on a regular basis.
Often, I say yes because the person was referred to me by a friend or client, etc.
But if I don’t know the person from Adam, it’s difficult to agree to such a proposal. There are often much better ways to spend my time — for instance, with my wife and kids.
Imagine if movie stars agreed to spend time with anybody who asked. They’d never sleep!
Every business person needs boundaries. Good for you for establishing your boundaries and enforcing them.
Ryan
My vote’s with Maximillian Sepeda.
This is not the first time Perry’s publicly vented over someone who has criticized him privately, without them having the chance to defend themselves. Fortunately it doesn’t happen too often. I agree with Perry’s logic; he doesn’t owe anyone anything. But I don’t know why this needed to be done in public.
One thing that keeps me reading your emails Perry is how much advice you give away every day. But I have some empathy for this guy. I too am learning to have respect for the response that any one gives me when I ask for their time, friendship, or what have you. The point is, if you are needy, you can and do attribute lots of bad stuff to the people who say no to you. But if you are ok in your own apace, a no is just a no…no matter how it gets delivered. But it’s not so easy to reflect inward to see that your outward judgements are really you looking in the mirror.
I think a man has to stand up for what his time is worth.
That said, the way you said it happened sounded arrogant and abrasive. Kennedy may be able to get away with something like this because he’s a jerk and he knows it.
You clearly are not a jerk, but you acted like one.
With a little more tact, thoughtfulness and positioning, you could have avoided the upset, and still got your point across.
Sometimes it’s not what you say, but how you say it.
I wasn’t there, and didn’t read your newsletter. Who knows, maybe you came across like an arrogant bastard. And without the context you put in your response above, I can readily understand how someone may have taken offense.
I like your work, Perry. We’ve never done business together, but I value the obvious smarts you have. And yours are among the few (and I mean few) messages I read entirely… which helps explain why I’m even bothering to respond to your post.
Peace.
Perry — sounds like it’s time to raise your rates.
Dennis — learn to spell… it might make you a tiny bit more persuasive.
Brian
Indeed! If one is going to be arrogant and dismissive, at least heed the spell-check! Did he think the red underlines were echoing his emotion?
It’s probably been a long time since Perry boasted about making “over $100K” – Please, people, don’t embarrass yourselves by presuming to offer opinions you are not qualified to give.
I have not yet met you Perry… but I will, and when I do I will be GLADLY paying for the time I have with you!
I would imagine you have spent millions of dollars in literal cash and time to learn what you know and it would be absolutely rediculous to expect you to just sit and map out someones business plan just because they bought you a sandwich.
What could you possibly accomplish over lunch anyway? Geez!
Charge that guy $1400 an hour… AND make him buy you lunch!!!
Perry,
I think you have every right to charge what you want for your information but this entire situation could have been avoided if you would have responded with a little less arrogance. Maybe made a joke about going to lunch with 100
people. After all, giving out valuable information is at your discretion. Meeting for lunch may have gained you several more customers for your high end coaching program.I think your comment was out of place.
I have been in Business for 25 Years and I can tell you that those who think they are invincible
usually end up being invisible.
Hello everybody, hello Mark Barton:
Mark, honestly, I don’t think it’s fair to say Perry is greedy because you don’t know him in deep.
What I know is I payed LISTEN: USD 100, one hundred USD for a seminar in Austin, Texas, time ago, and I almost freely received TONS of knowledge from Perry and friends. This so called “gratitude seminar” in Austin was awesome and with that seminar my family has received the benefits of a father who is earning more money. Isn’t this real and valuable HELP?? 100 USD = a better understanding of business = a family has a better life now.
In my opinion, Perry’s answer is fine, he also has a family to support and he can’t give his effort for free.
Regards,
Jorge Zamora
PS: sorry for written mistakes, english isn’t my native language…
Max,
I can’t speak for Perry, but I can only assume his motivation for opening this to public address is because where there is one “Dennis,” there are more. This was a personal attack, calling him greedy, equating his “greed” to the typical stereotype of lawyers, and ending with Perry’s position being “bull shit.” He could have ignored it and tossed it in the trash, but since there are likely to be many more out there who may feel likewise I honestly think Perry has deftly handled the matter — especially by not revealing the details in the email but rather allowing the recipient to decide whether or not to follow the link for more details.
Sometimes we really do need to “fight back” (for lack of a better word) and not allow people to wallow in the mire of their own ignorance. If I had done this, I would want to be set straight.
This has caused a great discussion, which is awesome.
Let’s be honest here, time is money. And if people are used to getting things for free, then why would they ever pay?
Of course… you wouldn’t like a friend charge you $700 to meet them, right?
But get real: customers aren’t friends. They’re customers. It doesn’t mean you aren’t friendly to customers, obviously we all must strive to treat each other respectfully, but that’s not Perry’s point.
The whole reason Perry keeps getting the “free lunch” requests is because he’s got the skill and talent to turn around businesses. If he didn’t have the results then no one would care to take him out.
All this comes from a former Bobsled Run member… so I know what it’s like to pay the cash to kick start and boost my business.
I agree with you whole heartedly. I have a website to help people with agoraphobia and panic attacks. I was recently accused of taking advantage of people’s anxiety to get rich.” Reading your response to this man made me feel a lot better. Developing expertise in an area and using it to benefit others is a lot of work. Like you, I don’t mind giving to people who are truly in need – but if someone who can pay for your services gets mad when you ask them to – then they don’t really understand the value of what you are offering. Thanks for the inspiration.
Hey Perry,
I have known you now for over 4 years and I have to say that Dennis is so far off the mark about you its just not funny.
I have a similar challenge (although not as massive as yours mate) where people want to “pick my brain” for free information ( I class someone buying me lunch for me exchanging 10 years worth of knowledge is free to them).
I think people like Dennis are the cause of a great deal of the worlds financial problems today. The people who want something for nothing. They are lazy and they are everywhere.
It brings a whole new meaning to the saying ” There’s no such thing as a free lunch”
Keep the faith Perry
Your mate DownUnder
Ed Keay-Smith
http://www.adwordsmarketing.com
http://www.ozdomainer.com
If I might add my two-cents. I have been following you, Perry, for some time and certainly don’t think you are greedy. I believe you give value for your advise and for that you should get paid. That said, I think you could have handled the situation with a little more tac. If I were in Dennis’s place, I would feel the same way. A polite response would have been to just decline the invitation and walk away. Dennis doesn’t need a reason. Giving the reason you did does make you appear aloof and not in touch with the little guy. And we who know you, know that is not true.
One of my sayings is.. many times we dont know the whole story so lets be careful to pass judgment and this was the perfect example.
Good job.
Van
Perry, your reply was excellent, and I agree with you 100%.
To ask someone out for “lunch” then milk them for free business advice just to avoid Perry’s consulting fee is downright dishonest.
That man should be ashamed of himself. There is enough free information in Perry’s newsletters and website to help anyone succeed in business. Why should Perry have spend time away from his friends and family to give away free consulting time in the form of “lunches” too?
If Perry didn’t charge for his consultancy time, how does this man expect Perry to support his wife, kids, employees and the large amount of charity work he does for people in REAL need?
Someone who claims to have been making over $100k since the ’70’s should know better than to write such a naive, and manipulative email.
You’d expect that kind of attitude from a 14 year old who thinks Mommy and Daddy should provide him with everything he wants, but reading these words from a 58 year old is just despicable.
To Frederico and Dennis,
I have had my feelings hurt when I felt that I had been denied something I believed I was entitled to. I have gone away thinking someone was selfish or didn’t care about others.
And I was wrong. When I tried a different viewpoint I learned GREAT things.
I invite you to consider this.
NONE OF US lives in the other guy’s shoes. We don’t have his needs, or his pressures.
The way to become sour and unhappy is to decide how other people “should” act – and then judge them by our own rules. That really worked for me.
Dennis feels that Perry is 100% wrong.
Frederico feels that Perry is only 50% wrong.
Both of you are wasting time and brain space that could have benefited you hugely. Your brains might have given you some great insight if you had set aside your own filters and rules and seen things from a new point of view. It could be worth a fortune to both of you.
How? You could just “try on” Perry’s experience. You can do that by reading his letter — AGAIN — and imagining yourself in his shoes.
Forget your judgment. JUST USE THIS GIFT OF YOUR IMAGINATION. You may be amazed at what you’ll learn.
Or not…
Perry,
I am a physician and I do understand the importance of being compensated for my time, however, I believe this situation with Dennis was not handled correctly.
Let me explain: I offer advanced diagnostic training for doctors throughout the US and abroad and have attended many many seminars with both students and potential students. I have also been asked to lunch and dinner to discuss topics related to our training.
First and foremost, I want to eat and second I don’t give a long dissertation on our 8 month training.
Case in point: I was recently invited to dinner by one of the doctors and he was accompanied by five other physicians. These doctors were very respectful and did not take me for granted. I of course provided a short overview of what they can learn and a couple of pearls.
Based on this 90 minute lunch I was contacted a few weeks later and asked to present our training to over 500 doctors and the payday was amazing.
I agree that if someone called me and asked me to take time away from my paying students and give them my information for free that is different.
But in this case, you were at a seminar and eating is part of the program.
Meeting with a few folks to simply get to know them would have been appropriate. Remember you are in control and you could have decided what you wanted to share.
Remember, our marketing efforts do include giving away something of value to show folks that we have other great content but it will cost them.
You had a wonderful opportunity to be gracious and give away things that you already gave away. And you had the right to reserve your other stuff for the ones that want to pay for it.
In closing, you may believe that your African donations will suffice in explaining why you need to be paid but to be quite honest, it has left a bad taste in my mouth from someone that I considered to be a good guy.
I will likely continue to buy from you but you need to re-evaluate your priorities.
You may feel good about your reply to this man but you lost not only him but the many people he will influence and the many people who read this blog and tend to agree with him.
Bad move…
Just my thoughts.
Ron
I agree with Frederico in his comment.
We all have to protect our time, but the way to do it with tact and manner makes a huge difference in the way people respect you.
I ask guru’s all the time to go to lunch, and most of the time they say no. I have even had them say yes, but then put me off and put me off until I disappeared. This is not the right approach either.
Gurus need to learn a little tact and support to their clients and followers. No one likes to follow a crabby leader. After all, it is your customers and followers that give you the “guru” status.
Remember the little people and don’t take them for granted. At least tell Dennis you are flattered and would love to spend time with him, but at the moment you are booked and busy… but, he could jump in line by becoming a client… if he wanted to get some rates, call my assistant…
My 2 cents.
This is a classic case of someone hating “Player” not the “Game”
This person level of failure is being attacked by the fact you are making money, so he lash out by trying to compare his years of $100K sales commission to your success…
Perry, He was waiting for you to offer him a 10% discount coupon!
It has been my experience that those who accuse others of greed are themselves the greediest people around. It would be interesting to see their pattern of charitable giving for the last 10 years — which of course would be redundant because we already know how it would look.
Regarding Perry and freebies: I have gotten so much absolutely FREE information from Perry and his associates that I have a reasonably large hard drive nearly filled to capacity from all of the MP3’s, PDF’s, and other extraneous information (screen shots, saved emails, URL’s like this one, etc). I feel guilty because I’ve probably read/listened to only 20% of it and have deployed very little of it (I am “procrastination” incarnate in bipedal form).
Unfortunately, there is no shortage of people like Dennis who are willing, if not anxious, to make sweeping assumptions about an individual without a single, credible fact, and certainly never having met the person they are slandering.
In my opinion, Dennis is absolutely right in his criticism and also in his observation about how you would justify your actions.
The point i think you really missed is the “greedy” reality which has blinded you and has blinded a large segment of the world and is why the world’s economy is in such a mess.
In your personal viewpoint expressed i think you have lost sight of the real reason you are successful and that is not because you are so wonderful but the fact that your customers have supported you… that is where your success comes from. I would suggest you don’t loose sight of that or you will quickly learn the lesson that the unapproachable are now learning as casualties of the economy with more to follow.
It really doesn’t matter how wonderful a product is or a person thinks they are… even if they can run a long list of achievements to justify their claim of popularity… the reality is that all equations in life work when there is a balance on both sides.
Don’t lose your value in a tsunami of ego, maintain a sense of reality in your opinion of your own self worth or your value will quickly dilute and no-one will pay anything for it let alone take you for lunch.
I did not know that we were supposed to critique you on your specific reply to Dennis.
I thought that we were to discuss the PRINCIPAL of the ISSUE and that you were just offering more FREE advice, which we could decide for our self’s if it would benefit us or not.
Since I have known you from your previous Career, I hope that you will always be a Friend and also tell me when I need to be told that “my responses are out of line” but not when I mess up and don’t give a politically correct answer because I’m mentally tired.
Perry. Your response was right on point. Well done.
I have a few other thoughts that I’d like to discuss with you over lunch. When can we meet. :)
Perry,
I’m in your court on this one. You make a very good case.
Unfortunately, reasonably expecting true-hearted Dennis to understand ignores an old dictum of Gary Halbert:
“A man can never know what it’s like to give birth.”
Dennis will never have any idea of the value of your advice, or the comparative randomness and uncommitted casualness of his, until he is in a jam and he has nowhere to go and he is forced to hire someone like you to help him out of the jam… or… until he starts feeding his family by selling time.
But, ’twas ever thus.
Happy Thanksgiving, Perry… and hey, the goatee looks good on ya!
-David
Perry and Laura Marshall are the most generous people I’ve ever met in my 41 years on this planet. Period. They could teach a doctorate- level course on the topic…and Dennis would be wise to enroll in it if they ever do.
I was at that seminar and it lasted until MIDNIGHT because PERRY stayed THREE HOURS longer than he was scheduled, pouring out FREE advice for anyone who stuck around to listen.
Right on. I’m constantly amazed that successful buiness person would need this reminder. But they do.
I get this all the time. “Would you look over my website and tell me what you think?”
My answer is, “Yes. I have a Diagnostic Service.”
But here’s my favorite. I also have a career change website. Every so often someone emails or calls. “I just got a bad performance review. Can you help?” The questioner is not a file clerk. He or she is an executive.
I’ve always been tempted to write back, “Now I see why you’re not getting great reviews. If you’re asking strangers for free advice, you’ve got a lot to learn.”
That would be cruel, wouldn’t it? Instead, I send a link to my rate sheet and my ebook.
Dear Perry Happy Thanksgiving!
I think you have taken a perfectly legitimate question/comment and turned it into a marketing/self promotion opportunity at the expense of the person making the comment.
You may not be so inclined but, it may be helpful to reflect on some of your personal motivations that are in play in this dialogue. A couple of self examination questions might be “what was I hoping to get from publicizing this interaction?” “What’s the good that comes from this”?
I usually get the “good” you’re trying to do even if your good is selling me a “good” product or some of your “good” advice. But I don’t get the good you are trying to accomplish here.
We all know you’re smart and as your readers we hear from you about your charitable / giving activities so we know that you give back. I just don’t get what you’re trying to do here. If it’s marketing – you can do better.
Perry, You’re the one with the “audience” so you are the one with the responsibility – use it wisely.
Final comment – is this really the Thanksgiving message you want to give us?
Max
Wow, there are some bitter poeple out there. The first thing I ever attempted to sell on the internet was a Palm OS application. Despite the fact that I had to pay $150 for the program to write the application and despite hours of work, I had someone tell me how low I was to ask people for $10 for a registration code to use it (and despite the fact that I clearly advertised that $5 would go to my favorite charity – a program that helped young adults get very low interest loans to attend college or trade schools)
Perry,
I’ve been a very successful traditional business owner for a long time… And I have been reading your information for years… I have personally inquired about your hourly services myself in the past… I didn’t take you up on it for one reason…
Your choosing to get paid by the hour… that is a limiting factor to your potential growth… The truly weathly don’t get paid for their time, they get paid for their results…
So in my case, I get asked all the time for advice and I give it freely because it’s the results that make me weathly not a helping hand at lunch…
Your da man Perry. I’m glad I got to see how a seasoned pro handles these situations.
Way to turn a sour lemon into sweet lemonade Perry! Can I take you to lunch sometime? LOL
Perry,
I have the most respect for your business
and newsletters. I also have the most respect for your emails and knowledge and advice.
But with all due respect:
a) Dennis is 50% RIGHT!
b) And you are 50% RIGHT!
Dennis is 50% right because that’s not an
appropriate answer. You can not change how
you made Dennis feel… and even after reading
your reasoning I would still feel like Dennis if I had asked you for lunch too.
I also believe that you are right in terms of NOT allowing others to pass the line. I give you credit of 50% for that here. But in the end of the day, I still believe that was NOT the best way to use communication with people.
If you had said something like:
“Dennis I would love to have launch would you and all the other people who have invited me over the past days… But please understand this would NOT a fair thing to do will all the people who pay for me to get advice. So I will have to kindly decline your lunch offer. Thanks”
It’s a polite answer. And addresses the question in its context. Gets the job done.
(And I know you khow how to sell so there’s no point in being me saying this.)
But to even mention the $700 is “offensive” given the context of the conversation. That’s like a “friend talking to a friend”.
Perry, your friends don’t ask you for $700 to have lunch with them. Do they? ;-)
They do it out of their appreciation they have for WHO you are. Nothing else.
The context matters. And with all honestly I think I would feel just like Dennis.
Just better “Contextual Communication” would have been enough to solve the issue.
Those are my 2 cents!
Regards,
Frederico Vila Verde
P.S. And only unless Dennis asks you that he really wants to have dinner with you, would I mention the $700.
But that would be the SECOND CARD to play in your deck. NOT the first card. The first card is just to decline the invitation.
Perry, your reply to the accusation of being greedy is spot on! You have and continue to give tons of free training and you sell information well below it’s true value in terms of return on investment if applied.
Also, I am positive you DO go to lunch with people and let them pick your brain for free AFTER they have taken the time to develop a relationship with you. To approach you, unannounced and unknown to you, and ask you to “go to lunch” is what I would call obvious greed. These people do not know you, your family, your problems. They are not your everyday friends looking to genuinely enjoy your company. They have one motive in offering to buy you a $20 lunch…getting hundreds of dollars worth of free coaching.
So, where does the ethics problem really lay?
Jim
Perry… well said… those who feel as Dennis does usually are those who shop price as well… This is not an assumption but my experience in both consulting and service businesses.
You hit it on the head when you cite VALUE to be the benefit, which quickly offsets the cost – because those who USE the information they buy EXPECT a significant Return on Investment – it’s an INVESTMENT Dennis.
Someone, maybe me, ought to write about the difference between cost and investment. Quickly stated – when we make an investment we expect a monetary return (real estate, business, stocks) when something costs (car, toy, vacation) the return is a feeling or memory.
When seeking information / consulting the return is financial – so make sure when you pay for it – you’re ready to use it and profit from it. It’s well known those who want something for free usually never act on the information – the reason is clear – they haven’t made an investment – so they have nothing to lose… basic human psychology stuff.
Utilizing the information… it’s almost laughable when someone wants something for free… it’s laughable because in the Internet Marketing community there is tons of free information worthy of getting any newbie to intermediate up and running. On Perry’s site alone there’s thousands and thousands of dollars worth of usable content.
I’ll wrap it up saying this… as a 13 year web developer and online strategist the biggest issue I find with clients who seek and buy information is implementing that information… Dennis if you have a plan and you knew you could triple your money – but you have to invest $725 an hour – would you do it?
The answer is clear… ALL DAY LONG!
Perry thanks for sharing this post – it’s one of those straight to the point necessities business people must be aware of.
Happy Thanksgiving to All!
Alan
I consider your action and reasons for same a lesson to be learned by me on how to better disipline myself on the wise use of my Professional Time .
Now I have my 2nd New Years Resolution !
* The 1st one was to become a top 0.8% person at the end of my 5th year in Business, by becoming a top 20% person in 2009 and then a 4.0% person in 2010
Perry,
I can’t understand why you don’t appreciate it when people give you unsolicited advice on how to run your business and your life. Seriously, I agree with your summary. Dennis doesn’t know you or your operation at all. I personally have received a ton of useful, actionable, free information from you in the way you wish to dispense it: through white papers, other documents, and teleconferences. I suspect thousands if not tens of thousands of people like me have received similar benefits from joining your legions of followers. It’s never occurred to me that you were greedy or a rip-off artist. I guess it’s also never occurred to me to ask you to lunch. On a broader note, I find Dennis’ opinions to be symptomatic of the broader societal ill we suffer today. So many people think their opinions about someone else (informed or not) are valid and important and they impose far fewer restraints on themselves with respect to expressing those opinions than in previous decades. We can thank Jerry Springer’s confrontational TV show and lesser daytime TV evils for encouraging the demise in polite discourse, I guess.
As a lawyer whose value is measured in time and advice, I respect your position.
It is strictly a function of success. If needed for marketing oneself, free lunches, free speaking and writing, etc. is something one does. If one’s success no longer requires that, one can charge for lunchtime as any other time.
Unfortunately, there is an industry devoted to making money off the willingness of professionals to give away valuable information for marketing purposes (that often do not materialize).
It is very heartening to see how the Internet is altering that by allowing direct sales of information and advice, without a middleman, and for independent value, not just as client bait. You and others who shed light on this path deserve whatever the market will bear.
The big trick, as I see it, is how to take the model of people who succeed with “how to get rich quick” information products and apply it to information products and services that help others make or save money less directly (e.g., in my case by reducing employment litigation risk).