Recently I spoke at an event where numerous people asked me to meet with them, have lunch, etc. I responded: Sorry, no free lunch meetings – if you want to meet with me you need to pay my hourly fee.
I mentioned this in an email and got this reply from Dennis:
Perry
I love your stuff, you are obviously a very talented online marketer. In addition I bet your a good person, I don’t know but I get the feeling you are. However one thing really bothered me that you said in your newsletter dated Tuesday October 28th.
As far as I can deduct you where part of a program that went late into the night that people paid for and after it was over several people wanted to take you to lunch etc, to pick your brain. You response was sure, just pay me my hourly rate. Now I’m all for people getting paid for there time, God knows if you say high to a lawyer your going to get a bill. Wlth that in mind there is such a thing as going to far. It’s called GREED. It’s what the me generation did to this countries economy today. It’s the reason our economy is in such a mess.
I have been here for 58 years and have met many successful people, everyone of these people that I have asked to take to lunch and chat never charged me a dime. And myself being a very successful sales person earning over $100 K per year since 1974 have always given freely to others who asked. My opinion regaring your reponse to a request to do lunch was not being a smart business person, it was greed with a capital G. Come on, lets get real here if this kind of greed does not stop this country is headed for the dumpster.
Can you imagagine having to pay everyone who you asked for advice ? Why not put a hold on the greed and give a little back without getting paid for it. Even the blood sucking lawyers do probono work, even high priced doctors volunteer there skill to help people who can’t afford medical care. Even old John D Rockefeller realised his greed and started giving his money away. Then theres Perry Marshall he won’t go to lunch with eager students and share his knowledge without getting paid. You can rationalize all you want, but your response was arrogant and greedy. Let me summarise, what you did was Bull Shit.
Dennis
This was my reply to Dennis:
Dennis,
Thanks for your note and I can appreciate how my comment made you feel. Yes if someone told me 20 years ago I’d be charging people $700 for lunch and turning away people asking for help, I might have felt the same way as you. As you wrote your email I think you felt more and more angry about it all the time.
My wife read your email and said, “Perry, this guy apparently doesn’t know how many people want to take you to lunch.”
Dennis, I have over 100,000 people on my email list. You have no idea how many people email my office and ask questions – hundreds and hundreds every month. I could EASILY spend all day dispensing free advice. The demand for it it ENDLESS. I could spend every single breakfast, lunch and dinner time slot dispensing free advice and the line would never stop.
At the meeting, had I responded to all those requests I would’ve been out to lunch every day this week dispensing free advice. Remember: I’m not a salesman. I’m a consultant. Advice, not widgets, is what I sell. When you were a salesman you didn’t give away your goods for free and you didn’t feel guilty if they expected you to and you wouldn’t feel guilty for saying no.
There are several reasons why I don’t dispense free advice:
-It would be unfair to those who pay for it, and there are many who do
-People almost NEVER act on free advice, especially if it requires them to do something uncomfortable – so what’s the point in dispensing it?
-If people want free information there are hundreds of pages of free articles and MP3’s on my website and it’s good stuff
-If I gave away my knowledge I would not be able to be generous to those who truly are in need.
You accuse me of being greedy and not being generous. You do not know that. You do not know me at all. You have no business making such judgments. You do not know how many people and/or organizations I DO give free advice to. You do not know who or what I give my money to and it’s none of your business anyway.
Just know this: If I gave away free advice I would have no money to give to AIDS orphans in Africa.
So given that I have people lined up to pay me money (for example if you want a 1 day consultation it has to be booked 1-3 months in advance; phone consults are booked 2-4 weeks in advance) why should I allow people to cut in line and pay nothing?
Would that be right?
Finally, most of the questions people would ask me are already answered on my website or in my products. Most of the business ideas people pitch me with are a waste of time. People who have not read my books or website first usually wouldn’t understand the answer if I gave it to them.
I am known all around the world for my expertise and my time is valuable. I am a STEWARD of my time and I am responsible before God for how I use it. To give it away indiscriminately would be irresponsible and wasteful.
I will give my time to people who earn it and that is why I am then able to be generous with people who need it. Hungry children in Africa need help more than well-fed Americans who are trying to solve their business problems. If they want free advice, they can ask someone else.
When people pay for my time, they get value. In life you usually get what you pay for, and when you pay me $725 an hour [note: my rate has risen since this was written, it is now $4,000 per hour] you get your money’s worth. My job is to deliver that value and make sure that knowledge is put to use for maximal effect to ALL involved – my customers, myself, and the causes that are dear to my heart.
Sincerely,
Perry Marshall
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About the Author
Perry Marshall has launched two revolutions in sales and marketing. In Pay-Per-Click advertising, he pioneered best practices and wrote the world's best selling book on Google advertising. And he's driven the 80/20 Principle deeper than any other author, creating a new movement in business.
He is referenced across the Internet and by Harvard Business Review, The New York Times, INC and Forbes Magazine.
421 Comments on “Perry’s Greed”
It must be a pretty lonely world when your only meal companions are those that pay for the privilege.
Perry,
I haven’t met you and I absolutely loved reading this post.
I look at it like this, I work a 9 to 5 to take care of my family and those that are less fortunate. If my boss were to ask me to stay until 9 p.m. to continue to work for “free”. I wouldn’t stand for it!
Your point rang true and is correct, and I hope that Dennis can one day understand your point.
Sometimes people allow their emotions and anger to cloud their vision and they aren’t able to see the “Big Picture”.
The truth of the matter is, you wouldn’t be able to live a life of abundance and help others if you did not discipline yourself in knowing the value of your time and energy. If you were wreckless in that, then others that depend on you or could depend on you would suffer, and that I don’t call greed. I consider that being a responsible business minded and caring individual.
Perry,
I’m continually amaized at the quality and quantity of information you freely give away as well as with how you over-deliver on the products that I’ve purchased from you. And very grateful that you’ve chosen to deliver much of it “in bulk” rather than as one-to-one because if it were only available on an individual basis, I never would have been exposed to it.
So, thank you for valuing your time so that I could have a little bit of it, too.
Hope your Thanksgiving was pleasant and Merry Christmas.
Joyce
You made a clear statement about your boundaries. I left Cuba to be able to do that. I have every right to do the opposite and give a free lunch away to every prospect if I want to (my friend’s parish priest does that right before he goes for the fund-raising kill!) but I’d probably lose my shirt.
Keep up the good work.
Jorge
It’s obvious Dennis has J-O-B and has self-limited his earning potential through his attitude about how to leverage his time for the highest earning.
He has decided part of his ‘income’ will be the feelings he gets when he gives free advice, so he expects others to do so as well – he’s operating from a different financial perspective.
Perry has a BUSINESS and has unlimited earning potential because he understands his value and how to deliver it for maximum price.
He has decided his INCOME is maximized when his time has a dollar figure attached. I imagine he’s making considerably more than Dennis.
I just learned this lesson the hard way – did some ‘free consulting’ with the idea that the two gents I did it with would barter with me…I deliver expertise, they help me network into their groups to sell more.
Turns out I was the only one that delivered on my commitment – can’t even get a return email now.
Thanks, Perry and Dennis, for helping me see the light.
No more free consulting over lunch! This isn’t a J-O-B and I’m not hoping to earn $100,000.
S
Comments from a “paying” customer:
Hi Perry, I took your Bobsled Run a couple of years back, unfortunately at a time when my business was in serious trouble. If you recall, I dropped out after you graciously spent some time with me one-on-one (without me asking for your call!) to discuss options to get some business in the door quickly (I am in the mortgage business). Other factors came into play and I couldn’t implement your excellent suggestions then.
At the time, I COULD have invoked your guarantee to get back my significant fee for the Run and believe me, I REALLY could have used that money then. However, I realized the value of the information I had acquired and expected to be using it some time in the future.
That future is NOW and I am reviewing all of that previous information as I migrate my business to an online model.
My main point in all of this is that Dennis doesn’t “get it.” He is an example of the “Entitlement Society” which our prosperity has lulled us into accepting as normal. The basic belief is that those who “have” should willingly give to those who don’t, even if those who have are already giving somewhere else (such as African AIDS victims) by their own choice! There is a whole lot more I could say on this topic, but I’m sure that you and your savvy readers understand.
I applaud your response to Dennis and for his sake, I hope that he read your letter and felt some shame. He can obviously afford your fee by his own admission and if he was entrepreneurial at his core, he would get off of his butt and start reading all of your free material … and THEN pay your fee if he couldn’t get his answer from there.
However, from his letter, my guess is that this is probably not the outcome.
Anyway Perry, thanks for keeping me on your list (like you’d ever let any one of us drop off!). At some point I’ll probably be a paying client again and would love to finish out that Bob Sled someday. I hope that you had a very Happy Thanksgiving and that your friends in Africa enjoyed theirs, too. Keep up the good work.
P.S. Dennis, use a spellchecker. THAT is some free advice you can implement now.
There is currently a post in Warrior Forum comparing between this post and Seth’s post.
http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/31466-perry-marshall-vs-seth-godin-thanksgiving-thoughts.html
I think they don’t have a clue. You’re absolute right. Your opinion aligns with Seth’s perfectly.
Cheers!
This is a extremely intelligent marketing tactic.
Read the replies. The overwhelming majority are confirming the value of Perry’s advice. That does two things. It offers social proof to others. More importantly once a person has publicly expressed their opinion of the value, they become attached to that opinion. They will then be more inclined to act in accordance with that opinion. That is when Perry offers something that fits their needs they will be a lot less price resistive.
It is brillant marketing. Everyone should understand the psychology working behind the scenes.
when people talk about greed? how to make $$$$$$$ using your brain and that’s for free and i think perry is cheap per hour to take kingpin out its more god bless the world and its people
Hi Perry,
Please send $10,000.00 for my reply… ; – )
Thanks for all the good you do mate!
Bill
Hey Perry. How about good seats at a Cubs game? Right next to Cuban. I’ll give you a chance to sell me the bob sled run:-)
Neil
Why on earth would you put this on your website and ask your customers to comment about it?
Is that smart business?
This is my second response to this because I am amazed at some of the responses. Especially those that are critical of the way you handled Dennis’ request for lunch.
Dennis never made a request for lunch! Dennis is responding to what he read in the newsletter that followed the Oakbrook (IL) seminar. Dennis’ opinion is out there with his name on it (assuming that’s really his name)– as is mine and every other responder to this topic. Poor Dennis? No. Really.
The other diversionary aspect is the $700. What if it were $70 or $170– the amount (IMO) is irrelevant. This is why the auto repair person bills for the diagnostic (when years ago it was free)– but may credit that amount to the fee if you get the repair at his/her shop. Maybe the “me generation” is the cause and not the effect.
Someone mentioned this could be a test of engaging a market. That’s possible. It could also be a test of who is paying attention.
Learn some people skills.
And stop telling your email people how much you make.
Obviously…its a bad time for alot of people.
your doing fine…I guess you dont need my money.
Now johnny bananas will dicect my english. because if make him feel powerful.
You didnt put a cap on the Y, I am smarter.
Why does bad english bother you so?
Are you that small of a person.
tis bout da point, not de righting
THINK
This is why you listen to perry. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!
I’m not trying to side Perry on this, but I think his answer was spot on.. If I were a consultant at his calibre, I would do the same… Think of it if you are a successful a personal trainer, then the guy next door keep pestering you to be his gym partner, or just to go to gym with him every weekend or so, would you go with him?
There’s no right or wrong answer though, but I think the guy Dennis has got no right to complain whether Perry wants to entertain him or not…
Hi
I know what my Solicitor would say (Lawyer to you folks in the US) if I asked him to lunch and then sought some free legal advice – Get Lost!!
The number of people posting comments on this Forum is testament to the obvious pull Perry has. I am new to the internet business and am just on the process of reading my first Perry Marshall publication, which I am facinated with.
My goal is to achieve a sufficient level of knowledge on the subject of internet marketing to be able to benefit from one of Perry’s coaching programmes, for which, I would be happy to pay for.
Nothing is for free if you expect to make money from it and Dennis obviously expected to extract from Perry some inner secrets to immediate wealth. Well, Dennis, as you Americans say – get real!!
Free info is all over the web as I am finding out. You have to search for it!
With regards to Perry’s handling of the situation is that he was spot on. The guy’s a consultant and they charge by the hour. Just as you and I would if we had the knowledge.
Perry, if you come across my post, I look forward to the day that I am sufficiently knowledgeable to be in a position to pay you for your expert advice.
Hi Perry:
I understand how time consuming it can be when you have people pulling you from different directions wanting to “pick your brain” etc. When you spoke at this event, people paid for the time and resources you offered. Anything after that is “on the clock” so to speak. Plus in my experience having people wanting to pick my brain, they often don’t follow through on any of my suggestions to help them start their business and the avenues they can take to get started, etc. I think in all fairness, the attendees paid for your time during the duration of your speaking engagement. Anything after that, well, could be taken off-line for a fee, perhaps a reduced fee related to the speaking event. If they really want to gain access to valuable information, then they can buy 1 hour of your time for a one on one consultation. Otherwise, I think you would be spinning your wheels and wasting your time with people who most likely won’t do much with the information you provided. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Ana
Dear Perry, I want to say you that the person that wrote you that e-mail is not right AT ALL. First, the knowledge you have you’ve paid it once (studying), and it’s your job to sell it. When I was a teacher I sold my knowledge and nobody was scandalized about it.
Second. You give all the information you have free. In your articles and newsletter. It’s enough to “listen” not only to “hear”. I try now to learn the new for me job -internet marketing. I have not money to pay the information, unfortunatelly, this is my situation today, so I have to use free possibilities. I wanted to say you (who knows, maybe you will stop it after that) your newsletter and articles have always realy valuable information -and it is the 500-karat rare diamond in the internet -to find realy valuable information, believe me, I know. Hope, you will continue your good work.
Hi, Perry
I’m from Bogotá, Colombia. You deserve what get. Thank’s a lot!!! Your advice have been very useful for me. You as a christian man really show how to work for the glory of our Lord. Your work is excellent. As the Bible says: 1 Timothy 5:18 (King James Version)
“For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.”
I’m right now in a critical economic situation, but I know I’ll be seeing you soon in a conference, and I’ll gladly pay your hour advice. I’ll be praying for you and your work, thank’s a lot also because of the great labor you do in the site: http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/index.htm
May God bless you a lot
Michael, in fairness to you I am posting your comment but I must take exception to something you said:
“I’m a guy who paid for a bobsled run (and brought two additional paying clients to do the same), and none of us got what we needed or expected. We wanted our problem solved, not our money back. I guess we were on the wrong side of the 80/20 rule that time, because you never bothered to straighten it out. It worked just like Kennedy taught you, and Robert Ringer taught him: you won, we lost.”
This is specifically untrue. I told both of you I would be happy to help you until you were satisfied. That was 2-3 years ago BTW. You and I had several follow-up conversations and I worked with you on a number of items. I don’t remember the specifics but I do not recall you pressing the issue further.
As for your client, I offered more help and unless I’m forgetting something significant, they did not take me up on my offer. If you truly feel that I won and you lost then I question why you are still giving me money.
Perry Marshall
What can I say? Anyone who can generate hundreds of responses on a blog like this deserves $725 per hour. Perry very clearly stated his response to Dennis ‘Sorry, no free lunch meetings’ and I don’t believe this was arrogant. I pay for Perry’s services and intend to pay more and more as my income increases. He posted this discussion for a very good reason and I hope it works Perry. If you’re ever in Amsterdam I’ll pay you $725 for one hour, buy your lunch and won’t even ask you for advice. It will simply be a thank you for cutting my advertising costs in half and providing me with endless streams of extremely precise, relevant and entertaining information. You are worth every cent.
Perry,
I agree if the point of a conversation with you is to help someone else solve their business problem, you ought to get paid. Yet, you did have a choice, and the way you handled the situation was arrogant.*
You already know that you reap what you sow, Perry.
Halbert, Kennedy, and you teach that public displays of superiority amplify the attention you get. The combination of attention and arrogance (what you sow) causes a variety of emotional reactions, such as
• desire to hire you
• jealousy
• wariness
If practicing arrogance brings you enough of the kind of customers you want, more power to you. There is nothing wrong with it – you are obviously scratching a felt need.
Your money is yours, you earned it, people are giving it to you by their choice and you should not have to justify any of it to anyone. Dennis’s comment that “greed” is causing “the problem with our economy” only shows that he doesn’t really understand how business and the economy work.
Unfortunately, I’m one of those who reacts warily. When someone is quick to display social superiority, it can indicate that the craving for attention and control is stronger than the need for substance. The way I see it, your consulting relationships are set up similarly: you get paid by the hour to shoot from the hip – a potentially win-lose proposition that can cause damage.
Remember, I’m a guy who paid for a bobsled run (and brought two additional paying clients to do the same), and none of us got what we needed or expected. We wanted our problem solved, not our money back. I guess we were on the wrong side of the 80/20 rule that time, because you never bothered to straighten it out. It worked just like Kennedy taught you, and Robert Ringer taught him: you won, we lost.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you are a fraud. Nor am I saying that because my cookies crumbled you are a complete jerk. I believe the successes you tell about in your testimonials. The reason I continue to pay to read your material is that I do learn from it.
I am saying there is a more balanced light than the one you portray, and that you reap what you sow: An “arrogance policy” makes people like me want to bring out our bones to pick. It attracts people who are OK being treated like sheep, and repels people who prefer being treated like equals. As a result, the world tends to appear warped: the population you see has more sheep, and fewer non-sheep than in reality. Its like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You are a smart and talented fellow, Perry. But your premises night be mixed around this.
If you confuse success with manipulating people though arrogance and control, then success will also conflict with justice.
I think that kind of conflict might be why you felt you needed to mention donating to starving Africans … as a sort of justification for your success. But that is irrelevant, a smoke screen which subtracts rather than adds.
MW
* Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines arrogant as “exaggerating one’s own worth or importance.”
I read this post on my way up to family on Thanksgiving and couldn’t help but laugh. My brother and I have been Perry Marshall fans and students of your work for the past several years and now that our business (which you, Brian, and everyone at your company) have helped give us advice on is growing people are asking to “take us to lunch”. We realized that people just wanted free advice and it was not fair to those who were in our program.
I have had the pleasure to meet you once and attend your Autoresponder seminar. The fee for the seminar was more than my brother and I had ever paid for a seminar and you know it was worth more than what we paid. In fact as a result of the level of your training and coaching I judge others by the standard you have set and most fall extremely short.
The best part of your response to Dennis was ” am a STEWARD of my time and I am responsible before God for how I use it”. If more people took this approach the world would be a better place.
Thanks for rewarding those of us who pay for your services (it is always worth it) and thanks for the free advice on the website and your book(again worth 10 times what it costs at amazon.com).
First, Dennis really needs to proof his emails before he sends them out. Using there instead of their, high instead of hi and countries instead of country’s, plus all the spelling errors really gave me a poor image of him.
Now four points about his message.
1. I remember well Abe Lincoln’s words, “A lawyer’s time and advice are his stock in trade.” When you are selling time and advice, giving it away is rather foolish.
2. Syrus a first century philoshopher observed, “Many receive advice, few profit by it.” As a mentor/coach, my worst results have always been those I was helping for free. If a person is not committed enough to pay for advice, they are highly unlikely to value and use it.
3. Napoleon Hill advised that when someone critizes another, the first thing to do is to check the credentials of the critic. In this case, that is all you need to. Dennis has no standing to criticize a consultant for the way he runs his business. Case closed. Verdict Perry.
4. I have learned so many marketing lessons from Perry and to this point all of them were free.
Totally unjustified remarks by Perry. But then he will probably always be an also ran.
Sooo… aren’t you asking for free advice here?
Let’s see… gotta be a hundred responses here.
So assuming that each person making a response took 6 minutes to think about this…
100 responses X 6 minutes = 10 hours
10 hours X $700
Perry… you owe the universe $7,000.00
Not to mention what you owe Dennis for affording you this chance to make a noise… that’s gotta be worth a few $k… or do you just “take”, like the people you complain about?
It was interesting to get my daily missive from Seth Godin this morning. A bit of a contrast, from someone who certainly understands making a buck.
sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2008/11/thanksgiving.html
Michael Andersen
(waiting patiently for my $70…)
Happy Thanksgiving Perry,
I have received many extremely good emails this Thanksgiving about how great we have it in our country and how God has blessed us for this privilege. Your email subject kind of suggested to me more of the same.
I opened it only to read about you complaining about free lunches. Then you included a link about you complaining more about free lunches and justifying it with a message from Dennis who was complaining about greed. WOW!!!
I can’t believe so many bits are being flipped on this topic!
I went back to that email and re-read it. You went and talked at a meeting and had super fun. Great! Just like the first time, I stopped reading it when I read your first bullet: No free lunch. I figured the rest of the email was more of the same. So why continue. My time, like yours, is valuable. I don’t read emails past the fold if there is no value above the fold. If there is no value on top, there is less on the bottom. We all have heard the phrase “headline news.”
Bottom line, Perry, you are out of line. Dennis told you about himself, just as I am telling you about me. And you told me about you. It suggests that you didn’t have anything better to write about.
You attacked Dennis for your personal gain. Am I more likely to spend money with you? Probably not. How many people now equate the name, “Perry Marshall” with the phrase, “No Free Lunch?”
It did remind me of some of the reasons why we get together for lunch. We appreciate our family, friends and business relationships. We have lunches to ask for something we want or to thank someone for something we received.
Might I just say that we all should be thankful that we can pursue our own flavor of happiness in our great country. In my humble opinion, your writing something about that would have been much more valuable to your bottom line. Remember, you’re not the only light bulb on the Christmas tree.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
LOL… for those who are laughing… I do know the difference between they’re and their… hehe
I just hit submit before proof reading. Ha!
BTW – Anna you are brilliant.
People who want stuff for free ARE the greedy ones…
If everybody wants “stuff” for free… then how can the people who provide the “stuff” exist?
Depending on my schedule, I would have taken the lunch…but very much in a similar way…we can talk about numerous things, but large areas connected to the type of advice I offer for a fee would be strictly off limits for the types reasons you mention.
I take that as a given and if anyone tries to cross that line I set them straight.
(How I do that depends on them of course.)
But I do think there is an aspect of this you may not be addressing.
That is …do you think there is no other part of you, your experiences, your life, ….that could be shared with others that you should not charge for?
I think that my be your ego buttering up yourself up….and thus it may be you who are losing something in not taking the relationship with the Lunchers.
Which is why I would accept an offer like that occassionaly…depending on who is was and whether I felt they would try to “pick my brain”.
If you/I want to help folks…and get paid for doing it…it seems to me one would want to keep a finger on the pulse of said “market”. The more successful one becomes, if we take your attitude, the less you may know about your market and how to appeal to them.
No scientific study to support my claims, but this seems to make sense to me.
Or…conversely…do you think that anyone who gives advice for a fee should not “go to lunch” for “free” with those who at one time or another have used their services…or may want to …etc.?
I would suspect that you have tried the very same thing at times and would still do so if there were a person who you valued as an exceptional individual.
It is quite natural to want to emulate & learn from others we perceive as “doing better” than our selves. Whether that is in finances, physical fitness, playing a sport…etc.
You may not get that these folks – in addition to your services – may be enamoured of “Perry The Man”…”Perry The Total Package”….wondering about more than just your public, financial successes….and the advice ( which was the magnet that attracted them initially) that they willingly pay for.
For example…I have always been intrigued by successful people’s diets & exercise habits …family background and how their personal relationships developed as success grew…and/or the challenges that presented.
There are many areas of life,.. types of things that some people may feel are important in addition to your knowledge….that are often not addressed.
I’m just saying I think if you took the occassional lunch…and obviously with the huge volume you have you would need to be selective….but under the right circumstances those very types of social gatherings…a lunch, a meal….are the kinds of settings that can be mutually benificial.
I agree with the majority of your reasoning but think you go too far , to the point you sell yourself short.
But that’s just me.
Sounds to me like Denis is just not happy that he didn’t get some free time.
Typical “Consumer” thinking.
Charging people for your time is the right way to do 2 things…
1) Determine how serious they are about what they want to discuss.
2) Manage your time… We all only have 24 hours so it makes sense that someone who has a lot of demands on their time would be “worth more”.
IMHO Denis is NOT doing the country any good with his dissertation on Greed.
His time would be better spent providing value to others so they are willing to give him $700 per hour.
Perry is a great example of the old quote:
“Find a way to serve many. Because service to many leads to greatness.”
Perry is a great guy IMHO because I don’t even know him but for years he has been sending me good information. I have been using it and I make well over 6 figures a year.
He has served me and I have purchased some of his products because of it…
More empathy (understanding the other persons situation before criticizing) is what this country needs…
Not people on soap boxes telling others why their wrong. (With that said I’ll get off mine… hehe)
i am from Indonesia, read all the comment i just remember my mother always say ” is better you give than take ” ,so look at world situation now “is this because of GREEDY of all MANKIND ?”
212 comments in 24hours!!
Looks like you struck a nerve Mr Marshall. Good job.
It always amazes me how people find the time and energy to tell you what YOU (or anybody else) what to do or don’t do.
Dennis failed to realize that Perry had already given his talk and offered to stay afterwards late into the night to talk to more these people…what more do you want Dennis??
Greedy people are the ones who want things for free. That’s greed at it’s finest.
A reader of my blog asked me to come here and comment. I don’t know Perry, but this debate is simply insane. I’ve pasted below the stock paragraph that is on my computer and which I use in conversation. A million or more people have read my books, listened to my podcasts, watched my videos, and heard me speak. The notion that I either owe them additional value, or that they have a further right to my time, is simply alien to me.
Here it is:
I’m sorry, but I can’t provide free consulting help or I’d be doing this 100 hours a week, given the millions of people exposed to my books, web site, blog, etc. There are hundreds of free articles to download on my site, as well as other resources.
I also offer situational consulting, an hour on the phone and a week of emails, for $1,000. I also have a global mentoring program, also explained on my site.
I hope you’ll understand my position.
All the best,
Alan
Perry,
I have some very interesting comments to make on this topic. Only thing is, I would prefer to put the comments to you in person.
So – how about if we met up for lunch instead? Just call my office to make an appointment.
Oh, and don’t forget to bring your credit card. I’d like the most expensive meal on the menu.
Thanks in advance and see you soon.
Results of Perry doing this:
increases interaction
cheap people are offended
people willing to spend are more likely to buy
Successful people have a correct principle reiterated
It is evident that in this argument, both are bumping your heads into the wall of the ego.
I will put it as simple as I can;
IT IS JUST A MATTER OF UNDERSTANDING THE
MEANING OF “FREE ENTERPRISE”.
If every person in this planet is educated about free enterprise, it will be so beautiful!!!
I’ve followed and purchased from Perry since 2005. The comments here are divided into three groups:
1 – Supportive of Perry’s stance
2 – Against Perry’s stance
3 – Seeing it both ways – “understand your position BUT you could have been more polite…”
What’s most interesting here is the quantity of comments (LOTS) and the length of the average comment (LONG).
This is a perfect, living, real-time, unscripted example of engaging a marketplace (perrymarshall.com readers) with a great story and emotion.
TO ALL THOSE WHINERS in groups #2 & #3 – maybe you can learn something positive from this after all.
If you cannot take Tom Hoobyar’s excellent advice and suspend your judgment and use your imagination to “be in Perry’s shoes” as you RE-READ his letter – then maybe you can move above the issue at hand and see the larger picture – how a market responds to an emotionally engaging story…
Very interesting discussion! And what a response!
My take is that Perry made his point clearly. He sells his time not a product – so why give it for free (more than he does already?!)
Rob
Hello Perry,
Having read the email from Dennis and your response, along with all the comments from readers, I think I am just going to reserve any opinion I might have. Most every angle has been covered, and you know what, I have learned a great deal from this post.
Just as I learn from your materials Perry, I try to find a lesson in most of the the things I choose to read.
Your lovely wife has the answer in the question she asked. I am of course referring to “understanding”
Lack of understanding leads to assumption and that leads to misunderstanding.
Having said that, I just realized I have just had an epiffiny. I could use adwords to make a nice profit from this post. I can just see it now. I could spend two hours or less a month, and I will obtain the life of my dreams, become wealthy beyond all reason, and the best thing is that anyone can achieve this almost effortlessly. Oh boy, I could write an ebook, do a massive prelaunch, have a firesale, go viral, and include “my secret” to all of this for just $47.00 and of course I will add bonuses worth at least $9796. and give you a free upgrade to “turbo charge” your marketing.
Let’s see, I could —-
OK, just kidding. For anyone that might take this seriously, please refer to Perry’s expertise with Google.
Too: Dennis and Perry,and all,
Happy Thanksgiving!
Larry Johnson
Dear Perry
You seem to have missed the point.
It was the way you said it! If you had explained a little about the reason for your (greed), then, maybe your point would have been taken. Instead, your responce to the request for lunch sounded arogant and conceited. I suggest your take more care with wording when you are turning someone down.
Kind regards
Margo
I think Perry’s response was spot on.
What right did Dennis have demanding a lunch date and free advice anyway? Perry sells advice and I bet Dennis would never give away any of his products/widgets for free. If he did, people would simply not respect or value the widget. Same goes for free expert marketing advice.
Perry your system is working just fine. You’ve just weeded out another time waster.
Life’s too short to deal with time wasters.
The real problem in America, in my view, is a sense of ENTITLEMENT – and Dennis demonstrates this so beautifully in his email. I remember similar comments on Rich Schefrin’s site – that since he is rich and successful, he “owes” those whon are not. That fact is that Rich and Perry and others have earned their success and what they do with their time is entirely up to them.
And by the way, in response to the comment above …
“I disagree with you. I frequently attend seminars/events and have spoken at seminars. Meeting people for lunch afterwards is not something I would charge for. It’s the civil thing to do and is part and parcel of attending a seminar-especially as a speaker.”
… I have been at several conferences with Perry and he has lunched with a group of attendees – at no charge. The important words here are ‘group’ and ‘informal’.
Perry,
I thank you for rejecting this guy’s demand for giving your time away for free to him.
I thank you because you are a good role model by showing how you value your time.
After all, a big part of success in any field is how you value and handle your own time.
I know from my own experience that in the past I wasted lots of my time by following all requests from anybody,
just out of fear of disapproval or even be hurt by anybody. ( In school I was hurt… )
It is not just about giving away free advice or so. Sometimes people just want somebody who listens to them or want to do some lengthy non-sense talking or similar stuff.
Even in those cases, where nothing sellable is given away, this is often a big waste of time and energy.
I think we all have to learn to be stewarts of our own time and energy.
Nowadays when I know that I have a lunch break of one hour, I prefer to spend about 30 minutes for eating and relaxing and the other 30 minutes I take out my notebook computer in order to get some work done.
I do this every day because I am running/building my business besides my employee job. I use the lunch break of my employee job to work on my business.
I wouldn’t spend the whole hour goofing off with my colleagues, and they respect that, nor do they goof off for so long anyways…
(Though I usually, but not always, spend the eating time together with them, and that’s OK in my case because I have a *balanced* colleague relationship with them…)
Also, if I spend free advice then it is with strategy: If I give away free support to prospects for my software product, I do this because
* this often leads to the sale of a license,
* this leads to positive word-of-mouth marketing,
* this is market research, so I know how to improve my product and/or documentation and/or sales-copy.
I would never give away free advice or free support when my business were to sell advice or support or when this giving away free advice or support were not useful in the overall business strategy.
In the case of Dennis, him being a salesman, going out to lunch with prospects was probably pretty strategic. He probably closed lots of sales that way. So, for him, it was well invested time and I think that he got paid well for that time.
So, thank you again for being a great role model. And you have all of my support for respecting the value of your own time.
Chris
I totally agree with Perry’s position on the “no free lunch ” offer.
By asking his readers their opinion on this matter, its also interesting to see all the different responses comming from people.
This provides valuable feedback to see how people tick.
I am one of the few that have known Perry from the bad old days when he was a very poor, struggling Sales Rep. I can honestly say that he hasn’t changed a bit in those 15 years. He’s still one of the nicest, most generous people I’ve ever met. He is someone we’d all do well to pattern ourselves after.
Perry
Right with you.
It’s great giving away free stuff, but some people don’t see the value and always want more!
I’m sure a free lunch with you would benefit them less than everyone else!
Keep up the good work.
Dennis,
It’s not completely impossible to get to talk for free to somebody like Perry. Just like anybody else, he also applies a “What’s in it for me?” logic.
That applies to who ever you want to talk to. In most cases the “What’s in it for me?” question is translated into dollar signs. That’s pretty normal. But not always. People live for more than just money. “Picking someones brain” usually means you get something without giving anything in return. That it is flattering to have your brain picked is only of value when you´re not the Guru that everybody knows. Once you reached that status, there’s no value for you anymore in having your brain picked for free.
Perry,
You handled this all wrong! Interesting discussion, yet it should have remained private. And also marketing 101…don’t burn your bridges, at your prices, you could have missed out on $$$Thousands$$$$, let alone word of mouth referrals….everyone has around 600 people in their circle. Sorry bud, all wrong. The good thing is that it sounds like even the ones here that are taking the same side as I took….your getting a second chance at gaining back the respect…not only on a business level, but as an individual.
Why do we fall down? So that we can learn how to pick ourselves up.
Regards,
Jamie
Hi Perry. Gee what happend here? Poor ice on it and move on. Your a professional, rise above this. Dennis doesnt have a link to 1,000’s of people to slander you, but you have that link and you havent used it wisely, this time. We all learn by our mistakes and some readers wil be learning a lesson here as well. Lets just stick to the ‘good news’ from Perry as always. Cheers from Australia